This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the first part of the first oral history interview of Kevin M. Engel (CN 514, T21) in the Archives of the Billy Graham Center. No spoken words have been omitted. In very few cases words were too unclear to be distinguished. If the transcriber was not completely sure of having gotten what the speaker said, "[?]" was inserted after the word or phrase in question. If the speech was inaudible or indistinguishable, "[unclear]" was inserted. Grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted. The transcribers have not attempted to phonetically replicate English dialects but have instead entered the standard English word the speaker was expressing. Readers should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and rule than written English. Foreign terms or phrases which may be unfamiliar appear in italics.
... Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence on the part of the speaker.
.... Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence.
( ) Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.
[ ] Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber.
This transcription was made by Robert Shuster and Brandy Shufelt and was completed June 1999.
Collection 514, T21. Interview of Kevin M. Engel by Robert Shuster on March 29, 1995.
SHUSTER: This is an inter...this is an interview with Kevin Engel, by Robert Shuster for the Archives of the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College. This interview took place on March 29th, 1995 at 9:30 a.m. in Mr. Engel's office at the Memorial Student Center on Wheaton College Campus. Kevin, why don't we start with some of your own personal background.
ENGEL: Uh-huh.
SHUSTER: When were you born?
ENGEL: I was born in 1962, and raised in a family that was religious, but not necessarily walking with Christ in a personal way. Churchgoers. And it was when I was about ten, maybe eleven years old, that both of my parents, through a Bible study, made commitments to Christ. And from that point on began to hear some of the saving, biblical teaching in my own home.
SHUSTER: And where was your home? Where did you grow up?
ENGEL: It was in Minneapolis.
SHUSTER: And how did you, yourself come to know the Lord?
ENGEL: I was fifteen when I made my profession of faith to accept Christ as my Savior and Lord. It was at a summer camp, as many commitments are, and my family was there. It was the first time that somebody had so clearly explained the atoning sacrifice of Christ to me. It really made sense at that point in my adolescence, so....
SHUSTER: Was this a one-on-one meeting, or was it at a camp, or...?
ENGEL: It was...it was a large group meeting...probably thirty, or so, high school students there, and someone explained that Christ had given His life for me. It hit me as such a logical thing that, of course, I should give my life in exchange for what He's done for me. Without Him I'd be completely lost, so it was not a real emotional decision. It was one that I thought through. "This makes the most sense of anything I've ever heard," and so I...I just prayed to myself at that point, and didn't even tell anyone about it until a few weeks later. I got very involved in a youth group at church, and...and that was at Hope Presbyterian Church in Richfield, Minnesota. I got involved with the youth leadership, and was discipled by some...one of the youth leaders there, and later on by my own father.
SHUSTER: At what point did you start thinking about going into Christian work full-time?
ENGEL: Actually, it was when I was sixteen. I was part of a teen missions team for a summer in the jungles of Surinam in South America...and, as I lived that summer with the Wyanna [sp.?] Indian tribe 250 miles into the Amazon jungle, I began to see the cultural trappings of...of my faith fall to the wayside, and see the importance of the central core of the Gospel. That even living in a pup tent next to the Lawa River eating rice, and noodles, and monkey meat was an opportunity for me to continue to live out my faith in very relevant ways without having to have a church building, and hymnals, and many of the things that I had been so familiar with, and so.... It was at that point that I thought, "I want to be involved in some way in a full-time vocational capacity in ministry, and...and then I came to Wheaton here as a college student in 1980. And, as many Wheaton students, came thinking maybe I'll be pre-med, and that lasted about a semester [Shuster chuckles] before I began to see that I wanted most of my investment for me to be involved in full-time ministry. So, I majored in communications and biblical studies, and began preparing for ministry at that point. Later on, entering a youth pastorship at my home church, at Hope Presbyterian in Minneapolis, and, then, later on, attending seminary at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.
SHUSTER: And how did you come back to Wheaton?
ENGEL: Well, it wasn't in my plans, necessarily, but I was just finishing up the MDIV. [Master's in Divinity studies] program at Trinity...had lunch with Dennis Massaro one day, just to catch up on how things were going. Dennis and I had been acquainted.
SHUSTER: And Dennis is the head of the Office of Christian Outreach here?
ENGEL: That's correct. And, during my years as a student I'd been involved as a student leader as the chairman of the Student Missionary Project. And so, Dennis and I were well acquainted to that ministry. As we sat down at Baker's Square over some pie [Shuster chuckles], he said, "You'll never guess what happened yesterday. My assistant director resigned, and it's in the middle of the school year. Would you be willing to come on and help out temporarily to work with the students while we search for someone to permanently be in this position?" So I rearranged my course schedule at Trinity, and worked out a way to come here part-time. And, as I did so, I started working with some students who were so motivated and excited about making a difference in the world for Christ. So after a few weeks of that I came into his office and asked, "Would you mind if I interviewed for this position, too, [Shuster chuckles] that I'm doing?" And, he said, "Sure." So, here I am a little over four years later.
SHUSTER: So, that was in '91 that you came on the staff?
ENGEL: Yes, uh-huh.
SHUSTER: Have you been involved in revivals or awakenings before, personally?
ENGEL: Not at all. No, it's...certainly not in this...in this way that has been so characterized by public confession of sin, by ministry of prayer to one another. It's been...it's very unfamiliar to my past and so I didn't necessarily have a pattern to follow, or an idea in my head about how the Spirit of God would choose to work.
SHUSTER: How did the meetings.... What was the planning process for the initial meeting, that World Christian Fellowship meeting that occurred on the nineteenth [March 19, 1995]?
ENGEL: Well, we had planned, together with our student leaders (the eight students that head up the World Christian Fellowship), to focus that night on barriers to missions. We felt like many students have a desire to serve in a full-time cross-cultural capacity, but they encounter problems like debt, objections from parents, fears of a lifetime of singlehood, perhaps, or giving up a lifestyle. So, we had planned to address that with a guest panel of missionaries in preparation or former missionaries from the Wheaton community here. And, after planning that for a couple weeks, [the WCF president], the student chair of World Christian Fellowship, and some other students were in a class with Dr. Tim Beougher on the history and theology of revival, and Dr. Beougher reported to them some exciting ways in which God was at work in a couple schools in Texas. He talked about that in class.
SHUSTER: In what ways had God been at work there?
ENGEL: Through an actual planned week of revival meetings (as they call them) similar to our special services...here on campus. And their speaker for that week was Henry Blackabee, and those meetings were February 13th through the 15th. Henry Blackabee is a Southern Baptist revival leader. And, as he shared in a very low key way about the fact that we all must come to Christ walking in the light, come clean before him, about thirty-five or forty young men and a number of young women openly confessed sin, especially focusing on the area of lust. And others prayed for them and it was a very...it was a key time for that small Southern Baptist school.
SHUSTER: And that was Howard Payne University?
ENGEL: Yes, Howard Payne University in Brownwood, Texas. So, Dr. Beougher shared about that in class...shared how that had also been spreading, in the sense that some of the students had gone into Southwestern Baptist Seminary, I believe, and had shared at a chapel service, and the response was similar from the seminary students there, that they responded with confession when the microphone was opened up for people to come and ask questions...and the president of the seminary said at that day that classes should be canceled for the remainder of the day so that this work of God could continue. So, [the WCF president], the student chair [of the World Christian Fellowship] came to my office after his class with Dr. Beougher, and he told me about these things that were happening at Howard Payne, and he said, "Do you think we should, in some way, work toward hearing about this in our World Christian Fellowship meetings?" And I said, "Well, we certainly...we have our semester booked already with speakers, and so forth, but I don't want to totally close the door on it. But, on the other hand I'm not sure God is honored in us backing out of commitments that we have already made to others. But," I said, "why don't you seek the wisdom of the student leaders, and if it turns out that Dr. Beougher himself is available to come to a cabinet meeting this afternoon...." (This was on Thursday, March 2nd. I think it was...before Spring break).
SHUSTER: When the students all leave campus for a week.
ENGEL: Yes, uh-huh. And I said, "Maybe Dr. Beougher himself could share some of this...some of the details, so the cabinet could understand it well." So, Dr. Beougher arranged his schedule so that he was able to visit the student cabinet meeting over at Buswell Library that afternoon. And, he shared with them simply what he had shared in class of what God was doing there. It was very unusual for this cabinet, which had been a group of eight students that often has a variety of opinions. They don't agree a hundred percent on a whole lot and yet, these students were completely agreed that we needed to do whatever we could to hear from a couple of these Howard Payne students about what was happening.
SHUSTER: Now were you at the meeting?
ENGEL: No, I was not. This is simply a student meeting, and I meet with [the WCF president] on a weekly basis to advise him on various aspects of decisions they need to be making. But, we try to keep it primarily student led and initiated. Well, with that type of consensus, which was so unique, my ears kind of pricked up. I thought, "My goodness, this is unusual for this group to agree on anything, especially something of this magnitude to interrupt our schedule." So, Matt came back, after the meeting, shared with me about their...their desire to look into...into this. And, I said, "Well, I need to find out what this is about. So, let me call Dr. Beougher directly." I still hadn't heard from him directly about what had been happening. I was able to get a hold of Dr. Beougher on Friday, March 3d, and he shared with me some of the things that had been happening at Howard Payne. I was concerned at first that perhaps, not being familiar with Howard Payne, that there was a difference in our traditions, between a Southern Baptist school and a Northern Evangelical school, that perhaps I wasn't sure what "revival" meant, what it looked like. Many had been concerned, "Is this overly emotional response?" And I asked him some of those same questions. And, as I heard from him, I was so convinced that this was something that was really of God, that this was not a human manufactured response, because of the way in which people had been convicted of their sin, and shared with one another in such vulnerable ways, but in ways that remained theocentric in their focus. It had a God focus, it was not exalting sin, and the response of the community was one of love and forgiveness, and of wanting to turn and make some lasting changes. I think that lasting fruit is a key for us to look for in genuine spiritual renewal. So, Dr. Beougher said, "Why don't you call Pastor John Avant, the pastor of Coggins [Avenue] Baptist Church, down in Brownwood?" because he had been one of the key leaders in both the Howard Payne and the Southwestern [Baptist Seminary] revival movements. So, I called Pastor Avant on Friday. I was preparing to leave on a vacation, myself, with my family early Saturday morning, March 4th. And, so...I was not able to get a hold of Pastor Avant. He was tied up in various revival meetings in his church and at Howard Payne. And, so, I called Matt back and I said, "Matt, I'm going on vacation. I'm going to a place in California where I don't even have a phone that's available to me. And so, if you would like to continue to pursue this, here's the phone number. You can call the pastor. Ask him some of these questions that we're concerned about. Ask him if there are some students that might be available to come to World Christian Fellowship at some point." I said, "I'm not real hopeful because I can't be in touch with you." So, I gave Matt the phone number asked him to pursue it during his Spring break while he was visiting his grandparents in New Jersey. [Shuster chuckles] He did have a phone that was available to him. So, during the Spring break I found a phone outside of a Sizzler Steak House by the highway. And, I called up Matt in New Jersey, and I said, "Hey, have you heard anything from Texas?" And, he said, "Yes, I've been on the phone a lot. And Pastor Avant and his youth pastor, have been talking to some students that are very excited to come and share with us. As a matter of fact their Spring break happens to correspond to the week that we would want them to come to our campus." So we looked into how we would get them here...looked into some airfares, and I was discouraged to find out the high cost of some of those airfares. We didn't have a budget to fly someone up here. This was a question of something that was planned. And, because we were flying them from some small towns in Texas (this wasn't coming from the Dallas-Ft. Worth Airport) and then returning them to a different airport in Austin, so that they could return to school. The tickets were quite expensive. And, I told Matt I didn't think we could do it for that price.
SHUSTER: How much were they?
ENGEL: One ticket was 361 [dollars] and the other was 381. So, over seven hundred dollars total. And, we normally...we had budget fifty dollars a week for a WCF meeting. So, this was beyond our means. [pauses] At that point, Matt had been in touch with Dr. Beougher and some others. Dr. Beougher said that he believed so strongly that this was something he wanted our students to benefit from and that he said, "If it's necessary, I'd be willing to go into my personal savings and to help out financially in whatever way is necessary. I simply don't want finances to be the only factor that stands in the way." At the same time, Matt's grandparents said, "Well, Matt, if you really believe in this, we'll be willing to...to chip in." And, Matt said, "And if the students really benefit from this perhaps we should take up an offering." So, we didn't have, you know, money in hand, but I thought, "There certainly seems to be support within the community." And, after giving it some prayer and talking it over with Matt over a period of two days, at some other pay phones, we decided to go ahead and step out on a limb and purchase those tickets. I told him this was not typically the way Wheaton College operates [Shuster chuckles]. We don't pay over seven hundred dollars to bring pretty much anybody here. Even the speaker for the whole week of Missions In Focus special services normally doesn't come at that expense, but I said, "This doesn't seem like it's a typical kind of thing, and maybe we need to go beyond our typical policies." So, we went ahead and purchased the tickets, and made arrangements for the students to come on Sunday evening March 19th. As soon as I returned to campus I contacted those that were scheduled to speak at a guest panel and asked if they would be willing to postpone until Sunday, April 2d. And, they agreed to do that. We had something scheduled on that night that was focusing on...on praise and prayer and we didn't have a speaker scheduled. So, it worked out - simply postpone it, rather than cancel it. So plans were underway and we started praying, then, that...that first week after Spring break, preparing for what God might want to do on the 19th, but we had no idea.
SHUSTER: "We" being the CSC [Christian Service Council, which oversees student Christian programs on campus] and WCF cabinet?
ENGEL: That's right. Myself and the eight students on the WCF cabinet. On Monday....
SHUSTER: When you say you were praying you mean you were meeting together for prayer before the...or were you just praying individually?
ENGEL: Matt and I met together for prayer. I didn't meet with the entire cabinet, and then, Matt met with the entire cabinet later on that week for prayer. But, primarily, we were trying to maintain a prayerful attitude throughout that week, listening carefully to the Spirit of God, because we felt as though we were getting into something that we weren't sure He really...how...in what direction we should go.
SHUSTER: Could you...before you talk about the meetings, could you describe what a typical Sunday evening meeting of the WCF was like? I mean, how many people came and how long it lasted, what kind of things that were done?
ENGEL: We typically meet at 7:30 in Pierce Chapel, and this year we've had an average of about 450 students coming each Sunday night. We have a mixture of...of praise through singing in a very lively way led by a few different student worship teams. We have three different teams that rotate every third week, as they plan and prepare and pray. We have prayer for different people groups, depending on what the speaker is addressing that week. And then we normally hear from a speaker that can tell us, in a half hour or so, the things that God is doing in different parts of the world. And, we normally focus on cross-cultural situations, although at times we feel like being World Christians involves first being...being right with God. Part of the great commandment is concerned with loving the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls, minds, and strength, and our neighbors as ourselves, and then reaching out through the Great Commission, making disciples of all nations. And, so, there's a dual emphasis certainly in all our meetings. Although normally our speakers don't focus simply on personal spirituality. We tend to have more of a focus on outreach.
SHUSTER: And, how did the meeting on Sunday the 19th start?
ENGEL: Well, there was certainly...there was a sense of anticipation, not because there had been anything in the publicity, the posters that are traditionally put up on campus, that was any different. As I met with the student marketing team ( four students), we decided that the theme "When God Moves" was appropriate because we didn't necessarily want to use the word "revival." We felt there was a lot of baggage associated with that word. Some people might misunderstand that, and think that there was a desire to try to recreate the revival of 1950, or of other times and we didn't want to do that. We wanted people simply to be open to the moving of God in their lives, and to rejoice with those students from Howard Payne about the ways in which God had moved on their campus. And so, we thought "When God Moves" is ambiguous enough [chuckles] that we could leave it open to God, however He wants to move. It's interesting that Nate Fawcett wrote up this agenda for the night, that I have in my hand, and....
SHUSTER: Why don't you go ahead and read that?
ENGEL: Yeah, this is something that he wrote to the student cabinet about that night reflecting some of our conversations and planning. He wrote to them, "The theme for tonight, as most of you probably already know, is 'When God Moves'. I'm extremely excited, a little scared, in great anticipation, and a little tired. We'll begin with a short overview of the evening to let people know where we'll be headed, and, specifically, to allay any fear about the nature of the evening. We've no intention of trying to recreate a revival that happened somewhere else [clears throat], no desire to force an emotional response within those present, and no specific way in which we want to see God move. What we do want to be...what we do want is to be as open as possible, giving God free reign to work as He wills. God is sovereign, and will work in His ways and in His time, and nothing we do will force His hand one way or the other. As we listen to the two students from Texas, we want to foster an atmosphere of rejoicing for what God has done, and also an atmosphere of introspection - an opportunity to look at ourselves and ask God to meet us in a new way." And, then, Nate Fawcett went on to list some of the songs that he and his team had planned to sing that night, some of the announcements, introduction of the speakers, and then the time for the two speakers from Howard Payne University to share, Brandi Maguire and James Hahn. After that time, he simply wrote "open mike response?" with a question mark after it, not sure how we would handle that or in what way God would decide to move.
SHUSTER: Now you read that Thursday...or somebody read that Thursday night, too, didn't you?
ENGEL: That's right. At the celebration time.
SHUSTER: Do you usually have open mikes at WCF meetings?
ENGEL: That's not a normal way in which we program things, but occasionally we try to a more interactive night of students with the speaker, so....
SHUSTER: Nate mentioned some of these fears people were having. Who were expressing these fears, or how were you hearing about these fears?
ENGEL: I was hearing about them from the eight students on the WCF cabinet. Some of them felt those fears, themselves. Others had been talking with friends and roommates around campus. There's...there's always a certain element of scepticism of...of anything that...that smacks to some students of a false spirituality, and that's a constant challenge on our Christian college campus, I think. And so, we wanted to make sure that students knew that there was no desire for anything false or forced to take place. But, we did feel that the Lord was leading us to provide a format where He could move. Simply to turn on the microphones, gather the students together, and see how God wanted to move. And, I shared with the Thursday night meeting, when [the WCF president] came into my office after receiving this agenda and this notebook from Nate Fawcett, and he said, "What do you think about this open mike response time? How should we...what should we expect to happen?" And, I shared with him, at that time that the response could be varied. It could be as brief as ten minutes. It could be as much as an hour of sharing. We didn't know. But I said, "We should instruct students that they can respond in any way. They might have questions for the Howard Payne students about the revival at their school. They might have some comments. They might want to read us a portion of Scripture that speaks to them. They might want to lead us all in a song, a prayer. Or, they might have a confession that they feel led to give. But...let's just leave it wide open for them."
SHUSTER: So, how did the meetings begin on Sunday night? How did the meetings begin?
ENGEL: Well, at 7:30, Pierce chapel was packed. It was not our normal 450 attendance. I still haven't heard from the students exactly what the attendance was. But, Pierce Chapel seats over nine hundred. It was certainly very full. That was unusual. And it wasn't the posters that had been attracting students. They had been talking with one another, anticipating that somehow God was going to meet us in a special way, not exactly knowing how He'd do that. And so, the students began with this overview. Nate Fawcett prayed with them to allay any fears that we're not trying to recreate something, but we wanted to praise and worship God, hear what had been happening at Howard Payne, and then see what the Lord wanted to do. So, that's exactly what we did. We had a great time of worship, singing five or six songs. And, then, the Howard Payne students shared what had been happening.
SHUSTER: What did they say?
ENGEL: Brandi Macguire spoke first, sharing not only the service at their school (where students had confessed publicly), but also sharing about some of the work that God had been doing in local churches in that area. She was a youth leader in her local church...at Coggins [Avenue] Baptist, and had seen a similar movement of God among the youth groups, some high school students that had really been convicted of their sin. And she had been...spoken at a few other area churches, and had seen the exact same response. And she simply shared, in a very brief way (less that fifteen minutes), what the Lord had been doing at Howard Payne and in her youth group at church. People were responding similarly, wanting to confess their sin publicly and receive prayer. And then James Hahn shared, as I recall, some similar events at Howard Payne, but also some more personal reflection on some sin that he had been convicted of as a student leader at Howard Payne and that...how the Lord had been working in similar ways at some churches and schools he'd been visiting since then.
SHUSTER: And then what happened?
ENGEL: They spoke for probably forty minutes, altogether, between the two of them. And, then, [the WCF president] came to the microphone and said what I said previously that, "Some of you might want to respond. If one of you would like, please feel free to respond, and come to the microphone [unclear]...." And, the first person up to the microphone immediately started with a confession. His name was Doug and he was a senior, who had been working through some bitterness with some of his former housemates, and he needed to confess that bitterness, and ask for prayer.
SHUSTER: And, after he had sat down, was there a line in back of him, or...? Was there hesitation at the beginning in people coming up?
ENGEL: There really wasn't hesitation, that I picked up. Immediately when Doug was done sharing there was another student at the other microphone up in front, and within ten minutes there were lines at least twenty students deep at each microphone, lining the sides of Pierce Chapel going all the way to the back. And so.... Matt remained sitting up front in case there was some type of guidance that was needed in sharing of these confessions, but it was very clear from the beginning that students had no desire to ask questions of the Payne students, or to comment on these things. They themselves wanted to get right with God, and get this out in the open so that their...their secrets that had been holding them in a certain grip could come out of the darkness into the light and loose their power over them, and experience the cleansing work of God as it is given by the community.
SHUSTER: What were your reactions while this happened?
ENGEL: Well, I did anticipate that there would be some student response. I thought that a few students would come up. Whenever you open up a microphone to Wheaton students, there are plenty who have some things to say and share [Shuster chuckles]. Although I was...I was intrigued that it began with confession so quickly. And, then as I saw the lines get longer and longer until, at one point, Dennis Massaro said, "Kevin, there are seventy students in line, and it looks like this thing is just getting warmed up." At that point it began to hit me that this was, perhaps, more than we had planned for our meeting, that God was at work doing something. It was a little awkward at first because some students began to share at length, perhaps more than they needed to, and as we saw the lines grow, we thought...we thought that we should give them some guidance in how to share their confessions so that many would have a chance to do that. And so, we asked them....
SHUSTER: "We" being who?
ENGEL: I was talking with [the WCF president] a little bit about this off to the side of the stage, but also at the end of one of the front pews Dr. Tim Beougher and Dr. Lyle Dorsett, and Chaplain Steve Kellough was also there (well, he was sitting in the back), and Dennis Massaro. And so, we conferenced informally out in the hallway after things had been going for an hour or two, and said, "What is going on here?" and "What should we do?" And so, as...as we spoke together, we decided that it would be good to provide students with some instruction about how to...how to focus their confessions, how it was important to name their sin. We talk around it sometimes and use various euphemisms. But to come right out and name it so that it could loose its power over them, and ask the body for forgiveness if it was something that had affected the entire campus community, or ask them for help and prayer if the whole body of Christ was perhaps part of the solution to...to them overcoming this sin in their life. An so, students began to be more...more specific in what they were asking the community to do, why they were confessing publicly. And some of them began to limit, then, their sharing. At first as students shared, they would confess publicly and then they would be seated again, but there was one point...I don't remember who it was, but someone shared something that was very painful. It was difficult for them. There were tears, and I went up to the front and, and said into the microphone that, perhaps, some students would like to come forward and pray for this person, and pray that God would assure them of His forgiveness, and that they could minister to them. And so, a group of students, perhaps some friends perhaps some who identified with that particular sin or struggle, came forward and prayed for them. And at first, sporadically a few students would come forward to pray for some who confessed, but not all. But, probably within an hour it became the norm that, after each student confessed, others came forward and prayed for them right there in the aisles, or up front, or taking them out in the hallway. And, before long, that just became the expected format, that after each person had confessed publically that they would be ministered toby the body of Christ in prayer.
SHUSTER: Were these different students coming up each time to pray?
ENGEL: Yes, they were. They were definitely different students. In fact we saw that after this had been going for an hour or so some of the students were leaving the meeting, and I noticed that, but I wasn't especially concerned. I thought, "Well, they must have some studies to get to, and they've been here to participate to some extent." But, then I noticed soon afterward that a lot of students were coming into Pierce Chapel and as I ran into some of the students out in the hallway I realized what had happened was that many students had left the meeting to go back to their dorms, or to make a phone call to their friends and to their apartment-mates, and I overheard as I came to MSC [Memorial Student Center] to call my wife and to tell her that I was going to be a little bit late coming home, I overheard one student on the phone saying, "I don't know what's happening, but God is moving, and something really unusual is happening at Pierce Chapel, and I think you need to come over here and see what's happening." And so, I think that was a part of the message that was getting out to campus. And so, instead of the crowd dwindling as the night went on, Pierce got more and more full. And so, we saw students who weren't necessarily regular attenders at WCF, but many students who wanted to be a part of God's work that night start to come into Pierce Chapel and those students were coming forward praying for their friends, or praying for those whose sin they identified with.
SHUSTER: Was...were the people coming forward to confess mostly upper classmen, lower-classmen, men, women? Was there any kind of distinction that was obvious that way?
ENGEL: Not that I really noticed. The first student to share was a senior, but many others came forward who I didn't know personally, but I think it was a pretty good cross-section. Certainly both men and women and quite a variety of things to confess as well. Some students were very personal, very vulnerable talking about sexual struggles and especially males dealing with the sin of lust, but others felt that there were more attitudinal, internal things that others perhaps wouldn't know about, or that wouldn't be visible on the outside or in their actions, but that they needed to...to confess.
SHUSTER: Such as?
ENGEL: Such as, pride, arrogance, bitterness toward others. Some confessed cheating in classes, and wanted to make commitments to get right with their professors in coming days. And....
SHUSTER: Were there things that surprised you when confessed? I mean, things that you would think would...would have expected but didn't hear?
ENGEL: I wasn't surprised by a lot of it because I'd heard these things before. I'd had many conversations with students individually right here on this table in my office, and I've been a part of some public confession in smaller groups around campus before, so I was aware that some students had some of these struggles. But I was surprised by the prevalence of it. Especially at one point after so many male students had confessed sins related to lust, and use of pornography, and other things like that. James Hahn, the student from Texas, came up to the microphone and he said, "There are so many guys among us that seem to be struggling with these things. If any of you would like to come forward and just receive prayer immediately, why don't we all meet right up here in front. You know, come up to the altar and minister to one another in prayer." The stage was immediately filled with guys. Not the stage, but the area right in front of the stage. And they spilled out into the aisles. I would guess a hundred or a hundred and fifty guys came forward, all kneeling, bowing, many of them in tears, filled with guilt, many of them, you know, with their arms around each other, or supporting one another in some way, praying together. And...and James and a few other students stood at that point and prayed for them to be released from the sin that gripped them and then we went on with confessions. No one told these guys, necessarily, to leave. There was very minimal instruction given. Some, after some time of prayer left the front of the stage, but other remained there for a good forty-five minutes or longer, continuing to pray for one another, and minister in that way. So, there was a strong identification around certain sins that students wanted to support one another.
SHUSTER: What did the meetings sound like as it was going on, besides people confessing? What did the group sound like? Was there...I mean, were people...while someone was confessing were people...were people verbally responding to them, or was there singing? Was there...what did the...what did the group...what did the crowd sound like?
ENGEL: At the moment when all of those guys came forward, there was a lot of weeping, and, at times, it was loud weeping. And I think...and some of it was coming from the guys themselves. Others, like myself, wept because we were just touched by the grip of sin. And it was almost overwhelming to see so many come forward who had been so trapped by this, and it was sad. I think there was a brokenness over the sin just realizing that there was a grip on so many in our community that had really been paralyzing us spiritually, and so there was a time when the weeping was rather loud, and a few of the students who were confessing just were silent for a moment while people cried. It wasn't a loud wailing, necessarily, but just a lot of tears and sobbing at that point. And, it continued on throughout the night, you know, until six o'clock that morning when we ended. There was crying on and off, but I think that initial realization that Satan had had a grip on so many of us for so long in such paralyzing ways just struck us all, like hitting us with a brick wall. And, we were really broken and hurting over that.
SHUSTER: Was there music or singing too from that...I mean, after the confessions began?
ENGEL: There wasn't that was initiated from...from the front. Occasionally there were student groups that had been praying for an individual for a period of time (twenty, thirty minutes, sometimes longer), sometimes they would minister to that person by singing to them a song. "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me!" or a song like "Wonderful Grace of Jesus" or many hymns and simple choruses that was almost focused on the person praying as an assurance of their forgiveness. But it wasn't...but normally it wasn't very frequent that that happened, and it wasn't usually the entire group singing together. We didn't feel that most people were ready to sing and rejoice at that time. There were so many people still waiting in line and so many still feeling the weight and the burden of their sins that we needed to pull off on the singing a while until our community began to feel the release .
SHUSTER: How did the meeting end that night?
ENGEL: I noticed certainly by four or five o'clock that the confessions were still...were still very helpful, but those that had been sitting in the pews were starting to show signs of weariness. A few had dozed off to sleep. Some who had been there simply praying and interceding all night long were just feeling so weary. And, as I got together with Dr. Beougher, and Dr. Dorsett, and the chaplain, and Ruth Bamford, as well ( the dean of student programs), I continued to check with them every hour or two to see if they had any...any counsel or advice on how we should proceed. And, a number of them looked really unified that if students got too tired and too weary that we would begin to...to not be thinking as perhaps as rationally as we should, that we might be opening up the door to Satan to work in us because our bodies were so tired. And, some of the intercession was getting less and less.... [break in tape]
SHUSTER: You made an announcement that...?
ENGEL: Made an announcement that it was obvious that God was at work among us, but He still had much work that He needed to do. And, that was evident by, oh, a good forty people that were still standing in line at the two mikes, and so that for today we would...that we would end our gathering, that we would come back together again on Monday night at 9:30 at Pierce Chapel to continue ministering to one another in this way, so that if some people needed to attend classes or needed to just get some sleep, that...that they could do so and come back and continue this. I wasn't sure if that would in some way interrupt the flow or the work of the Spirit at that point, but as I talked with...with some of the leadership we really felt that if the Spirit of God is at work here, it's not limited to a certain time frame, that God wants us to be well rested and He's glorified in that as well. And that it would be pleasing to Him that we would get some rest and then continue to minister to one another. So, there was a bit of a risk, but we thought that would be the best thing at that point.
SHUSTER: How did the people in the group react to that announcement?
ENGEL: Oh, I think that they were so tired that I don't know that there was a whole lot of reaction, [laughs] but we did sing a couple songs to celebrate a little bit there at about 5:30, 5:45, what God had been doing, but many were feeling that they did need to get some sleep. And, some had meetings. I had a 6:30 meeting that morning [Shuster chuckles] that I needed to get to, and others things that they did need to attend to, so I think it was received well.
SHUSTER: You mentioned, of course, the students being there. Were there faculty and staff in significant numbers at the meeting too, that you were able to observe?
ENGEL: Not at that first meeting on Sunday night. There were some, as I mentioned, whose names I mentioned already, who were there. But, there are a few faculty members, a handful of three or four, that regularly attend World Christian Fellowship, and those people were there. But, I didn't notice any that weren't normally in attendance.
SHUSTER: How did the next day go for you, Monday? What, after your 6:30 meeting, what did you do? Who did you meet with? Who did you ...what happened on Mon...during the day of Monday?
ENGEL: Well, a lot of those meetings tend to blend together in my mind. It's hard to draw a real clear distinction between Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, but as I recall we wanted to start out with...with some singing, with a time of worship so that people could begin to focus once again on the Lord, and on what He wanted to say to them.
SHUSTER: You mean on Monday night?
ENGEL: Yes, on Monday night, and so Nate Fawcett and his worship team lead us for a little while, probably half an hour or so. We did share some guidelines and some Scripture. Especially, we continued to share I John 1:9 with some students that "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us." And, we wanted to constantly assure them of the forgiveness and the cleansing work of God so that they would realize that the body of Christ was imparting that forgiveness to them on behalf of the Lord.
SHUSTER: Had the leadership of WCF met on Monday before the meeting?
ENGEL: Not formally, but we were certainly in touch with each other throughout the entire day.
SHUSTER: What kind of things did you say to each other? What...what were you thinking about what you wanted to do that evening?
ENGEL: We didn't know exactly what to do other than that God had been working among us, and that we felt like, since there were so many still standing in line, we simply needed to continue to make the opportunity available. We did want to continue to stress to students that confession is...is a very important first step, but that long-term change was necessary. And we needed one another for that change. So, a few students shared some Scriptures, Ecclesiastes 3, how we really need each other. And...and various people shared some pieces of wisdom that they thought would be important, such as, we need to be very careful about how we talk about these things. Some very confidential things have been shared and it could be destructive if it turned into gossip at any point. But, we shouldn't hesitate to talk about what had been happening. God is glorified in us talking about Him and His work. But, just to be very discerning in how we talk about it. Not sensationalizing in any way. And, also to consider if there are some that we shouldn't invite to come with us, or if we shouldn't, perhaps get right with others outside of the meetings if there were some restitution that perhaps needed to be made. Some reconciliation of relationships.
SHUSTER: On Monday before the meeting, did you feel you had to tell anybody what had been happening, or communicate with the administration, or anything, or just....
ENGEL: Well, I think the administration had some key representatives there in the chaplain and in Ruth Bamford, the dean and.... And so, I think the proper people were aware of what were...were aware of what was happening.
SHUSTER: Uh-huh. Were you getting any reactions from people who hadn't been there, or any kind of people who wanted to know what was happening?
ENGEL: I, myself wasn't in a whole lot of communication with the campus body outside of this office [Office of Christian Outreach]. I had primarily been in here answering my phone, and trying to...to talk with the chaplain, and with a few of the professors, and the students who had been leading us, trying to discern what direction we should go, and if we should continue to meet, and if so for how long. I...I did have quite a few voice mails, and phone messages that were coming in from people saying, "Thank you for the leadership that was directed, but it was minimal. And it really allowed the Spirit of God to move. Perhaps, here's a reminder that we need to hear, or here's a piece of wisdom that we should here." And so...so I think that there was a lot of sharing in leadership from the body of Christ that we could gain the wisdom from the body, and make some better decisions, rather than if just one or two people were deciding how the movement should progress. But, we did decide from the very beginning that we should just take it one day at a time. You know, many were asking "Well, are we going to continue to meet all week? If so, how late should we meet?" Chaplain Kellough asked me that right before chapel on Monday morning. He said, "Well, I'll...I'll announce that nine thirty is our starting time. What should I announce for our ending time?" And I said, "I'd be comfortable if you didn't announce one. I think we should just show up and see what the Lord wants to do." I said, "I'm not sure that it would be healthy for us physically to continue to meet all night, on and on, but who am I to say? We'll see what God decides to do." So...so he announced it in that way. And, we just showed up to see what God would do.
SHUSTER: So, what was the meeting on Monday night like?
ENGEL: It continued to be characterized by public confession, but I think people were very familiar with the format that had taken place, and so.... Oh, it's probably a little too...it sounds almost too natural to say it was more efficient, but the sharing was perhaps more brief , and people knew immediately that they needed to come forward after confession and...and minister to one another in prayer...and.... And, then it was also announced on Monday night that there were some who perhaps had stumbling blocks back in their rooms or their apartments. Things that would continue to tempt them into sin that they had confessed. Thing such as pornography, or alcohol, or music that wasn't glorifying to God. Some guys talked about this swimsuit issue from Sports Illustrated, that comes out each February, and how that had been a struggle for them. So, [the WCF president] encouraged them to leave the meeting, to go back to their rooms, and get whatever it was that might cause them to sin, and to bring it back, and to put it up on the stage, and to put it into garbage bags that we had sitting there. And so, there was...there was a lot of focus on not only confessing, but then taking the step of action to root the sin out of our lives, and make sure we could walk as a people who are pure and holy.
SHUSTER: Was this something that Matt had talked about ahead of time, or was it just something that came to him at the meeting, as far as you know?
ENGEL: [Pauses] I don't recall if it was mentioned Sunday, early Sunday morning or if it just came to him Monday night. But, I think there were a couple students that came to him, and asked if they could do that, if that would be appropriate. One student initiated that by coming forward with a stack of CDs of some secular music he had really been convicted about, and he said that, "I'm not saying that everybody was [unclear] of all secular music, but for me, I must say that this stack of CDs has been leading my mind into places that don't please God." So, he started it with a big stack of CDs , and then it continued to accumulate into a few garbage bags full on that first night, and every night from then on.
SHUSTER: Did you find that the meetings at night had different character from one night to the other?
ENGEL: [sighs] Yes, I would say they did. Part of that was perhaps...due to the change in location. Monday night, we were in Pierce Chapel. Tuesday night we moved over to College Church across the street, kitty-corner from Pierce, because of some scheduling conflicts here on campus with our own facilities. And so being in a different location was a bit of a wild card to us. The chaplain and I had a number of discussions about the importance of place and location, and he had even done some reading about the whole theology of place. How God has been at work in special ways in certain places. Certainly biblically we see that there's in the demonic world spirits of...that are territorial, and so on, and on the positive side, God has set aside certain places throughout Scripture as holy places that are really set apart. And, certainly, the history of...of God moving in Pierce Chapel here at Wheaton College has been rich, and so there was a desire to want to remain there. And yet, we really felt like if...if there are scheduling conflicts we don't want to divide the body of Christ by saying that what's happening here is somehow more important than what someone else has going on. So, we decided if this is really of God, that moving the place is probably not going to thwart the work of the Spirit, if it wants to continue working.
SHUSTER: "We" being yourself and the WCF cabinet and....
ENGEL: Yes, and the chaplain, and Dr. Dorsett, and Dr. Beougher. And so, I would say Tuesday night was characterized by.... It was a little more mellow some people said to me. The sharing continued right along the lines of public confession, and people came forward to pray for one another. But it wasn't quite as...quite as energized, perhaps, as the previous nights had been. So, that may just have been physical exhaustion after two nights of staying up so late, when we ended at two o'clock....
SHUSTER: Were you seeing the same students coming night after night?
ENGEL: Many of them were the same. Although, there were different students coming forward all the time. And...and...and yet, the focus was still on...on confessing our sin, ministering to one another, rooting evil things out of our lives by bringing them forward. And...and, then on Tuesday night we decided that some of the focus on sharing our sin had become so heavy that we decided it would be wise to occasionally intersperse a student's testimony of how God had been working in them, outside of the meeting. So, a few times on Tuesday night we had some students come forward to share some good news, so that we wouldn't get so down and focused on our sin and instead keep the focus on God's amazing work.
SHUSTER: You mentioned on the first night out people were confessing to sins of sexual immorality, or pride, or arrogance. Was that throughout the meetings continue to be the kind of thing that people were confessing, or were different things confessed on different nights?
ENGEL: I think it was pretty well mixed throughout all of the nights. There were, probably in some minor ways, some themes that developed, because as one person confesses a sin it...it convicts and triggers in someone else's heart, "That's right. This is a sin in my life as well that I'm...I'm in bondage to." But, for the most part it was pretty well mixed throughout the entire time...some were.... The first couple of nights I heard a number of people talking about attitudes of race...racism, racial prejudice and discrimination, wanting to confess that to brothers and sisters on campus that from minority groups. And....
SHUSTER: So these were whites who were saying that?
ENGEL: Yes, sometimes whites, but sometimes they were black students as well who were sharing...sharing some of this racism and bitterness toward other white students or majority ethnic students on campus. Some confessed bitterness toward certain groups. There had been some animosity between different musical groups on campus. A sense of competition that wasn't healthy. And so there was mixture of...of ways in which people wanted to reconcile and get right with one another.
SHUSTER: Was Wednesday night different in character from the other nights, and if so how?
ENGEL: I would say, for the most part, I sensed it was very much the same focus on confession. We continued to introduce a few testimonies of...of God's work. There were continued tears at some point. Although one big difference I noticed on Wednesday night were a large number of faculty attended. I looked across just one section on...on the west side of College Church and counted probably twenty faculty members, just sitting on the side section. It wasn't even on the main floor, so I don't know. If you'd multiply that across the whole sanctuary, there, there could have been sixty, seventy, or more faculty in attendance. I'm not sure. And, Dr. Litfin then came on Wednesday night, as well, and spoke, right toward the beginning of the meeting about his view of what had been going on.
SHUSTER: And, what did he say?
ENGEL: He said that initially he felt that he wanted to stay away from the meetings so that he wouldn't interrupt what had been student initiated and largely student led. And, somehow his presence because of his position might be intimidating to some who wouldn't want to confess their sin with the president there. But, he had been receiving a number of comments from students, faculty, and staff that his lack of presence there was being misinterpreted as a lack of support. And he did not want that to be the message, so he came to tell us, "I definitely support what's happening here, and I just didn't want to mess anything up." And, he shared a Scripture with us from Isaiah about keeping our focus on God, and keeping it theocentric, not anthropo-centric. And so, he was concerned that we keep our God-ward focus, and, so, he was pleased to see that we were occasionally having testimonies shared.
SHUSTER: You mentioned that on Wednesday particularly there were a lot of faculty and staff present. Were faculty and staff also confessing, or testifying?
ENGEL: No, there weren't. It was...was unusual in that regard, that it remained all students. Occasionally...I can think of two times when faculty came to the microphones, but they came more to share an encouragement or an insight rather than a public confession of sin. And I'm not sure exactly what to make of that, but some have varied interpretations on that. But, I was just glad to see that presence there. I think they really.... Some of them, I had heard from a couple faculty members, felt similar to Dr. Litfin that they didn't want to intrude on what students had been doing, and they didn't want to...to appear, and somehow squelch what had been going on. But, as they saw it go on, you know, Wednesday, for the fourth night, they thought, "Boy, apparently, God's at work, and there's not a lot that my presence can do to...to mess anything up, and so, I want to show up, and support students, and offer my prayers, and want to know what's happening spiritually in our community."
SHUSTER: Did you get...as the week went on were you getting any kind of reactions or questions from people off of campus about what was happening?
ENGEL: The reactions were entirely positive from...from what I was hearing. Although since I was often a part of the leadership up front, sometime I would expect to hear...
SHUSTER: Uh-huh.
ENGEL: ...mostly all the positive things. People don't tend to come right to your face with the negative things, unfortunately. But, I really felt like that was most of what others were hearing as well.
SHUSTER: What were they saying? What were you hearing? What were people saying to you?
ENGEL: Some were alumni who were calling, and saying that they had heard about what was happening, and that they were praying for us. For example, I received a phone message on...on the 23d of March form David Dial [sp.?], from London, England. David is the personal assistant to George Verwer, the head of Operation Mobilization. And he said, "News has reached us about what is happening in Wheaton," and he'd had a chance to talk with George about that, and to share that. And, he said, "We wanted to assure you that we are rejoicing with you about what God is doing at Wheaton. And, we want you to know that many OMers around this planet know about this, and are praying for you." He said, "We're also praying for long-term, life-changing fruit. We're praying that renewal would not simply stay here, but would then be communicated to the world...the whole harvest field would benefit."
SHUSTER: Praise God.
ENGEL: Yes, and he also prayed that churches would be turned upside down as students went back to their home churches, or into churches around the Wheaton community. And, so, he shared some of those requests, and that was typical of some. Not all were coming from, you know, across the Atlantic, but many from around the country. My voice mail was full every day.
SHUSTER: Did you get any comments or reactions from local pastors?
ENGEL: Well, the pastor of the College Church [Shuster chuckles.] was certainly involved the first night we were there, Tuesday night. Three of their pastors were there, and stayed with us in a very unobtrusive way just up in the balcony observing, and praying the entire night until we ended at two in the morning. And...and they continued to support us in that way. [Pauses] The pastors that I did hear from, or who attended were wanting to know if they could also receive prayer, themselves, for God to work in a similar way at their churches. One pastor shared that his church had experienced renewal in...a little bit along the lines of the laughing movement that had been seen in Toronto, and in some Vineyard churches. And he said, "That's fine," but he said, "I...I really feel like the people in my church need to first experience a break over their own sin. And I'd like to see some of this very contemplative, meditative kind of conviction come upon my congregation." And, so, we took some time at one of those meetings to ask pastors to stand, and we gathered around them in groups, and prayed for them.
SHUSTER: How many were there? How many stood?
ENGEL: I would guess maybe ten, or a dozen. There were...it wasn't simply pastors. There were also representatives from a number of campus fellowships, De Paul University, Loyola, Northwestern.
SHUSTER: Northwestern in Chicago?
ENGEL: Yes, uh-huh. Northwestern University. So, some other local schools had heard about this. Students came down form North Park College, came in from Chicago, and....
SHUSTER: Was there some pattern to the way that people had heard about the meetings, how they had found out about it?
ENGEL: At first it was primarily word of mouth. I think our networks are pretty well developed. A lot of students called their parents at home, and said, you know, "My mom is praying" or "My dad is praying." And, they, in turn, shared with other people at their home churches. A number of alumni who were in touch with the college were informed, and spread things that way. And, then, on Wednesday, WMBI [radio station of Moody Bible Institute] in Chicago broadcast about this during the Prime Time radio show, hosted by Jim Warren. He had been present on Tuesday night. And, so, he...he interviewed some people, and talked about it. And, then, of course, as a satellite network, that was broadcast to hundreds of affiliate stations. So, a lot of people certainly heard that way.
SHUSTER: On Wednesday night, how did the meeting end?
ENGEL: It was a little surprising to me. We thought that we should continue to...to end no later than two o'clock for the purposes of getting some rest. And we announced...I announced, on that night, that we would continue to leave the microphones open until the last person confessed. We felt that every confession is important, and, "So we'll just see how that worked." But, about one forty-five that morning the lines ended. The last person confessed. I was surprised by the timing of that. And, so, at that point we rejoiced with a few songs and hymns of praise, and announced that we felt like the Lord was releasing us to...to praise and to celebrate some of his work among us. Certainly confession isn't over. It should never be over, but we felt a unity, as among the leadership that I consulted with, that God was releasing us to move into another phase of renewal. It was important to keep that theocentric focus on the Lord, that we have a night dedicated to celebrating the work of God. And, as we explained that I think people were largely in favor of that. Although, I heard from a few students then the next morning, [creaking noise in background.] "Oh, I've been really struggling with this, but I haven't yet had a chance to confess it publicly. Do you think there will be more public confession?" And so on Thursday night we didn't want to...to start again with this heavy brokenness of confession, but we wanted some to have that opportunity still. So, we had a group of people who were sitting up in front that...that would be available to hear confession, and to go into the hallway, and to pray for those people. So, a few students continued to come forward, even on Thursday night to that front pew of people that included Mary Dorsett, and some of our student leaders, and Dr. Beougher, and others, and they went out in the hallway, and heard a number of confessions, and prayed for people.
SHUSTER: And, what else happened on Thursday night?
ENGEL: Well, after an incredible time of praise and worship, and it...it was a release. Let me tell you. People were so ready to praise, at that point. I think once we see the...the darkness, and the...the brokenness of our own sin, the contrast to the beauty an the purity of God is all that much more bright. And, so, people were really feeling freed from the bonds of sin in...in many respects, and were ready to praise God for it. And, so, the worship was exceptionally energetic on that night. And then we asked Dr. Kellough if he would share....
SHUSTER: And, by worship you mean the singing, and the prayer, and....
ENGEL: Exactly, yeah. For probably half an hour, forty-five minutes. Dr. Kellough had not spoken up front during any of the meetings up to this point but [the WCF president] and I met with him on Wednesday afternoon, and thought it would certainly be appropriate as the chaplain, if he is able to show his support, and give some of his wisdom and perspective, that he'd been hearing.... He'd been very supportive all along, but he said, "Matt...Matt and Kevin were involved in the leadership from the beginning, and it seems to be going fine with them taking most of the up front leadership. And, so, you know, why change it? I...I think it's going fine." But, we asked him if he would give some of his perspective and some guidance, especially in relation to some of the media attention that had been coming up in the last day or two. Some...some of the media (primarily Christian media...very friendly reports) had been approaching certain students to give their perspective, which is fine, but he wanted to warn them about getting to specific about others. And, he said, "If you want to share about yourself in a detailed way, feel free to do that, but let's be careful about how we speak about others."
SHUSTER: Others who had made confession?
ENGEL: Exactly. Yeah. So that we don't...that we aren't guilty of gossip, or that kind of thing. So, he wanted to share some of those things, but actually his comments ended up not focusing even on that to much. I'm sure he'll tell you, but he shared some Scripture with us, and helped us just to keep our...our focus on the Lord.
SHUSTER: Was it...the prayer from Ephesians, wasn't it, that he...?
ENGEL: Yes, it was. That's right.
SHUSTER: And, then what happened?
ENGEL: I gave us some guidelines that night for our...for our time of testimonies of praise. Shared with students a little bit about how this had begun with the student leaders on Sunday night and the statement that I read just a little while ago.
SHUSTER: Uh-huh.
ENGEL: And then asked them that they would share one of two different types of testimonies, either stories of God's work in their lives outside of these meetings.... As I had been talking to students in the dining hall and around campus, I'd been hearing some wonderful stories of reconciled relationships between students, and restitution that was made, and ways in which God was healing people from a lot of past hurts and bitterness that they'd been holding; and I thought it would be so wonderful for people to tell those stories. In addition, I said, "Some might want to share a little bit of what God is teaching you in these days. What is he teaching you about sin, about your own brokenness, about the cross, about the work of the Holy Spirit, about the importance of the body of Christ in healing, in forgiveness?" And so asked students to share in a brief way in a few minutes what God had been teaching them.
SHUSTER: And, what were the testimonies that you heard?
ENGEL: They were wonderful. It was amazing. They shared many of those things. Some did share more lessons that they had been learning about how the body of Christ has...plays such a key role, how many of us had fallen into isolation, and how we needed to maintain a unity with one another walking in the light, continually confessing to one another, so that sin isn't allowed to fester within us. And, some shared specific stories of victories over sin, and...and getting right with others, as...as we expected. And, then, of course, one student even shared about making a commitment to Christ for the first time. That was really surprising to us, but we were rejoicing all the more that the Lord had chosen to work even in that way.
SHUSTER: She'd been saved through the meetings?
ENGEL: Yes. Uh-huh.
SHUSTER: Were there any other types of confessions, unlike testimonies, or any kind of....
END OF TAPE