This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the oral history interview of Margaret Rice Elliott Crossett (CN 287, T7) in the Archives of the Billy Graham Center. No spoken words have been omitted, except for any non-English phrases which could not be understood by the transcribers. Foreign terms are not commonly understood appear in italics. Place names in non-Western alphabets are spelled in the transcript in the old or new transliteration form according to how the speaker pronounced them. For example, Peking may be used instead of Beijing, because that is how the interviewee pronounced it. In very few cases words were too unclear to be distinguished. If the transcriber was not completely sure of having gotten what the speaker said, "[?]" was inserted. Grunts and verbal hesitations such as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted. The transcribers have not attempted to phonetically replicate English dialects but have instead entered the standard English word the speaker was expressing. Readers should remember that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm and rule than written English.
At various points an unidentified rustling noise is recorded, noted in brackets in this transcript as [rustling noise]. This noise was probably Crossett's movement causing the microphone to rub against her clothing or her fidgeting with the microphone or its cord. In several brief cases, the noise largely obliterates the spoken interview.
. . . Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of though within the sentence on the part of the speaker.
. . . . Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of a incomplete sentence.
( ) Words in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.
[ ] Words in brackets are comments by the transcriber.
This transcription was made by Wayne D. Weber in October 1997.
Collection 287, Tape T7. Interview of Margaret Rice Elliott Crossett by Paul A. Ericksen, May 30, 1986.
ERICKSEN: This is an oral history interview with Margaret Rice Elliott Crossett by Paul Ericksen for the Missionary Sources Collection of Wheaton College. This interview took place at the offices of the Billy Graham Center Archives at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois, on May 30, 1986, at 1:45 pm. [pauses] Well, Mrs. Crossett, I'd like to start by just picking up some loose ends from previous interviews. Your husband mentioned something in one of my interviews with him about your wedding floral arrangements that I should ask you about. He used . . . .
CROSSETT: Well, our wedding was very suddenly changed from Wuhu to Nanking because of the death of the Stams [John and Betty]. Their funeral was held in the little chapel we were planning to be married in. So we married in Nanking in the Friend's mission of one of my classmates, Rachel Mostrom, lived there and we . . . we went to her house. She lived with a couple, Mr. & Mrs. Mathie [sp?]. And we went down to the floral . . . to the florist and we tried to make him understand what a wedding bouquet was, 'cause the Chinese didn't use them. But he had pictures . . . he had a picture of bouquet and I said, "Now, I want one like that." He said, "Fine." And then the . . . the morning of the wedding the flowers didn't come, they didn't come, they didn't come. And it was about fifteen minutes before the . . . the wedding was to start, and they came in and they were fixed for a coffin, the top of a coffin. [laughs] And I had to tear it all to pieces and rearrange it and I was all in a fluster. And . . . and Nathan Walton, who was to sing at our wedding, he came in. He said, "Margaret, I want to talk to you." And I said, "I don't have time, I don't have time. I'm fixing this" And he said, "Well, I've got to talk to you." I said, "Well, wait till after the wedding." [laughs] And after the wedding he came and said, "Mr. Brown, who drove us down from Wuhu is sitting out in the car. Could he come in?" [laughs] [unclear phrase] he wouldn't have come in to the wedding. [laughs] But [pauses] here it was January and it was cold [laughs] and he was sitting out there in the cold. And here we had a very small wedding. There were seventeen of us there. But it was . . . it was a nice wedding. And one of the ladies who was a musician, musical instructor in Suling [sp.?] University played the little pump organ. And it was just a very informal wedding.
ERICKSEN: Was [pauses] . . . was the date of your wedding changed at all because of . . .
CROSSETT: No.
ERICKSEN: . . . the Stam's funeral?
CROSSETT: No. We planned it for January 22, 1935, and we kept the same date but we just changed the place.
ERICKSEN: Now, would there have been more people there if the Stam's funeral hadn't been . . . ?
CROSSETT: Possibly not, because most of the people from Wuhu came down anyway.
ERICKSEN: I see. Okay. [pauses] When we were just finishing our last interview, [pauses] you mentioned that having been a missionary child yourself, you wouldn't [pauses] . . . wouldn't want to send your children away to school. Why did you feel like that?
CROSSETT: Well, I . . . I just felt that it wasn't . . . I mean, children needed their parents and the Lord had given them to us to bring up, not to somebody else. But we found it was impossible to keep them [pauses] for several reasons: first, because we were in war. And second, because we were the only people [pauses] in that area [pauses] . . . the only people who could teach them the . . . the Christian principles. And all the society around us was rotten. It was terrible. And they picked that up faster than they would the good things from us. And we felt we had to get them away.
ERICKSEN: Can you think of any examples of things that they picked up?
CROSSETT: Well, the people were swearing and they were swearing. [laughs] And anything that they heard they picked up. And [pauses] I tried to keep them away from the Chinese as much possible. Well, they came to Sunday school and they played some with the Chinese children but not too much. And . . . but they heard things all the time and they were always picking up things. [pauses] And we just had to get them away from that atmosphere. And . . . .
ERICKSEN: Was there [pauses] . . . over the course of their education in China did you find that sending them away had its problems for them?
CROSSETT: Well, I took the children and fled when the Japanese were making their push. Vincent stayed behind and was surrounded. But I went out to west China and . . . and Virginia had to go to school. So I sent her with one of our single missionaries down to the school in Sichuan. And then the school evacu . . . evacuated to India, and she was in India for nearly two years. And [pauses] when she came back she didn't know us. She hardly [unclear] . . . we were just letters as far as she was concerned. We had to get acquainted all over again. [clears throat, pauses] But as far as the schooling was concerned, it was excellent, 'cause it was our mission school. And . . . but afterward she spent a summer with us and then that fall both children went down to Shanghai to school, to our mission school which had come back from India. So they were there for a year and then we went home on furlough.
ERICKSEN: Has [pauses] . . . as we've talked in the past interviews every once in a while we come across some incident that [pauses] you still seem to enjoy laughing about. Are there . . . can you think of any others?
CROSSETT: Well, [pauses] . . . once . . . seee I remember some . . . some women asked me if I was a hundred years old when I was born [laughs]. And I said, "No, I count the same years as you do." And they said, "Oh, I thought you were a hundred years old when you were born and then you went down a year every year." [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Was that a Chinese [pauses] joke or . . . ?
CROSSETT: No. This was in the interior and they didn't know any better. They . . . it was what they thought. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Why was it that you took your furlough in '47? Was that when you were just due for furlough.
CROSSETT: Yes. We had to have fifteen years on the field between us. And I had had nearly ten and Vincent had about five.
ERICKSEN: So you were due.
CROSSETT: So it was time.
ERICKSEN: Did you have and inkling of what was [pauses] going to happen in China when you left?
CROSSETT: Well, we just figured that war would get worse. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Where did you suspect it would end up?
CROSSETT: We didn't know. We hadn't any idea.
ERICKSEN: As you look back on your . . . your life in China, and I guess we may touch more on this when we talk about Taiwan, what did you enjoy most about Chinese culture?
CROSSETT: Well, they were very friendly and very open, and we'd had no difficulty in making friends with them and [pauses] they with us.
ERICKSEN: Did you find that you had to take the initiative in building relationships or when you say "they're friendly" was . . . ?
CROSSETT: Well, we were there to give them the gospel and we took the initiative in that way. But as soon as we did they responded, and invited us into their homes and [pauses] . . . and they came to ours. [pauses] They were very friendly.
ERICKSEN: Can . . . can you describe what you liked least about Chinese culture?
CROSSETT: All the filth and the bugs. [laughs] They're filthy. [rustling noise] Filth all over the place. And, of course, all kinds of bugs when we traveled. There was bed bugs and fleas and lice and . . . . [laughs] [pauses] The people themselves, the well-to-do people, were very . . . were quite clean. But the ordinary people that we worked with mostly would sew themselves into their clothes for the winter. But in the summertime they'd take a bath everyday. The . . . [laughs] [pauses] but then in church they were . . . [pauses] many of them had T.B. [tuberculosis] and they'd hemorrhage in church, and they'd hold their babies out in church. And those things weren't pleasant, but [pauses] it was just part of . . . they didn't know any better.
ERICKSEN: We think about [pauses], like in American culture so based on the individual, and that seem to [pauses] makes some parts of what the Bible teaches more difficult for us to understand. Can you think of anything like that in Chinese culture that made . . . [pauses] that was in some way the same, made them more resistant to hearing the gospel?
CROSSETT: Well, their ancestor worship and their spirit worship would make them resist the gospel. But it was the ancestor wor . . . worship in particular, because they . . . they had to honor their ancestors. It's still the same out there. The young Chinese people feel they have to honor their parents, so that they shouldn't marry people their parents don't approve of. And [pauses] . . . and it's hard for them to become Christians 'cause it would mean a break with the family. And the family is very strong in the Chinese culture.
ERICKSEN: What . . . where are the ancestors?
CROSSETT: Well, they have an ancestral tablet in the center of their living room, I mean in the back wall. And they have . . . they worship them on the first and the fifteenth of every month and then especially at New Years time. They offer incense and . . . and sometimes they do it daily, put little food . . . [pauses] bowls of food in front of them and . . . .
ERICKSEN: Now what's on the tablet?
CROSSETT: The . . . the names of their ancestors.
ERICKSEN: And how far back do the . . . the tablets go?
CROSSETT: Well, thousands of years, I guess. They [pauses] . . . well, let's see, the back of the tablet they have all the records. And they put . . . bring them up (at least this is the way it was) . . . they'd bring them up every sixty years. Everybody of that name would . . . they'd elect leaders to come to the ancestral home of the clan and then they'd bring the . . . bring the records up for sixty years. And they'd give the family [pauses] names for the sixty years. I don't know if you understand the name system, but every generation had one character of their name the same. And so if . . . for instance, if . . . I was with a woman once. Her name was Wong. She met a man by the name of Wong on the street. And she said. "Well, what were your generation names?" And he would name about four or five generation names. And she said, "Well, I'm your aunt then." [laughs] She was a generation ahead of him. And they could tell by the names what generation they were. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: And so keeping . . . the ancestor worship was sort of a genealog . . . played a genealogical function for them . . .
CROSSETT: Yes.
ERICKSEN: . . . too. [pauses] Now this bowl that your sister gave us, what [pauses] . . . did that have something to do with ancestor worship?
CROSSETT: I don't know. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: It was just a small . . .
CROSSETT: Brass bowl?
ERICKSEN: . . . brass bowl.
CROSSETT: I don't know that they used . . . they may have been used for incense.
ERICKSEN: Can you think of anything in Chinese culture that [pauses] helped them understand the gospel?
CROSSETT: [pauses] Well, I think they understood the blood sacrifice 'cause they offered pigs in sacrifice. And [pauses] . . . well [pauses] they . . . yeah, Christ is the intermediary between us and God, 'cause they all use the intermediators [sic] all the time if they quarrel or anything or have anything against somebody else. They never go directly to the person. They always have somebody they call a bairen, somebody to go between to reconcile them. So they understood that.
ERICKSEN: [pauses] How would you characterize the strengths of the Chinese church?
CROSSETT: When we first went, I would say it was . . . was weak because they were too dependent on foreigners, foreign leadership and foreign money. When we took over from . . . in Zhengyangguang the pastor immediately sent to us to pay all the bills. We said we wouldn't do it. They said, "Oh, Mr. Ferguson always did." Mr. Ferguson had been taken by the Communist from there and never heard of again. We said, "Well, we won't. If you want to pay your bills, you pay your bills." And they said we didn't have any love. [laughs] But they were happy in the end that they could be independent. [pauses] But, later on, in out district anyway, we taught them to lead their own meetings and pay their own bills and look after themselves. And they were real proud of that and they became strong. It became a strong church.
ERICKSEN: When you left in '47 what weaknesses were still quite obvious in the Chinese church?
CROSSETT: [pauses] Well, in '47 [pauses] the war was coming on and we were . . . the church as afraid. People were beginning to [pauses] put . . . hide their Bibles and . . . or throw them away or . . . and their hymn books. I know one woman [pauses] said, "Give them all to me. I don't . . . I'm not afraid." They were afraid the Japanese would kill them if they found out they were Christians. This woman was a Christian. She was in the country. And she just got the whole stack of Bibles and hymn books. And when the Japanese came in they said, "Oh, I see your are a Christian." She said, "Oh, yes." And they said, "Fine." [laughs] And they protected her. So [pauses] . . . but most . . . a lot of them were scared and [pauses] . . . and were afraid to acknowledge that they were Christians. But later on they got more brave. [pauses] That was just in our district. I can't speak . . . speak for all of China.
ERICKSEN: Sure. Yeah. No, I understand. What did you like most about your work in China?
CROSSETT: Well, I enjoyed the women's and children's work. That was my work and I enjoyed it very much.
ERICKSEN: Anything in particular about working with them?
CROSSETT: I don't know. They were very friendly and . . . and [pauses] especially after I was married and had children they felt I understood them and were more free [pauses] with me. But they were always free even before I was married. I enjoyed it and then the children were so . . . so much fun and they were so responsive.
ERICKSEN: Can you think of anything that [pauses] you liked very little?
CROSSETT: Well, I didn't like the children coming to Sunday school all covered with small pox. [laughs, clears throat] And they would get so mad when I'd send them home. They didn't understand that they had to be quarantined. And then if they came only half clothed or naked, why I'd send them home to get some clothes on. [laughs] And those things, children didn't like and . . . and then [pauses] I would have them draw pictures of something after I told a story. But I had little stubby pencils and I . . . and during the war we couldn't get paper except old newspapers and stuff, so they had to draw on newspapers. I'd give them just little squares of papers. But when I gave out the pencils I shut the doors. And we counted . . . I had . . . I'd had one of the children give out the pencils and count them. And then when I collected them again . . . the children would collect them and they'd say, "Oh, there's one pencil short." And I wouldn't let them out until I'd searched all their sleeves [laughs] . . . and I'd find the pencil. We couldn't replace the pencil because of the war time.
ERICKSEN: How would you deal with the culprit?
CROSSETT: Everybody saw him and then they said, "Oh, oh, you stole." That was his punishment. He took his face. But if he got away with it his parents praised him. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: [pauses] Well, you . . . in 1947 you [pauses] . . . you came home to Wheaton . No.
CROSSETT: No, we came home to Wyanet.
ERICKSEN: Oh. And how long were you there before coming here to Wheaton?
CROSSETT: We didn't come to Wheaton [rustling noise] in '47. Oh, '47, yeah, that's right. That was our second furlough. Our first furlough we went to Wyanet and that's when Margaret was born. But our second furlough, yeah, we came right here to Wheaton.
ERICKSEN: Do you recall the changes that you saw in the college [Wheaton College]?
CROSSETT: Well, the [rustling noise] Academy had moved out. And we had graduate school which they hadn't had before. And [pauses] there were a lot of changes in the churches.
ERICKSEN: How so?
CROSSETT: Well, the churches were much bigger, [pauses] much more attended . . . much bigger attendance. I didn't like certain features. I didn't like the fact that if we . . . if our children didn't attended every meeting in the Wheaton Bible Church they were called up and written to and everything else, until the children were so disturbed I finally [pauses, laughs] called them. I said, "I don't want you to be a . . . bother our children any more. They'll go to the meetings I send them to and otherwise don't ask them to," 'cause they would cry and . . . and . . . but that was their style, check up on everybody every time. And [laughs] then another thing I'd go to the missionary circles. And I'd been used to famine and then these big fat woman . . . women, they'd have all this custard and pies and all kinds of things after the women's prayer meeting. And I couldn't stand that. [laughs] I thought that was terrible. [pauses] It was such a waste of food and [pauses] we'd been so without food in China.
ERICKSEN: How would you compare the . . . the spiritual atmosphere here on campus with what is had been for you when you were an undergraduate?
CROSSETT: I thought it was much better, much deeper.
ERICKSEN: Can you think of any ways that . . . that illustrate that?
CROSSETT: Well, the prayer meetings, the student prayer meetings were attended better. There was more interest in missions. And the whole atmosphere was . . . was much more deeply spiritual than when we were students here.
ERICKSEN: Was there anything that . . . to which you could attribute that that you saw on campus?
CROSSETT: I don't know. It's been . . . it had been ten years since I'd . . . no, it had been fif . . . five year . . . seven years since I was home before.
ERICKSEN: You were to . . . were you taking courses in the grad school [pauses] along with . . .
CROSSETT: Yes, Vincent . . .
ERICKSEN: . . . Rev. Crossett?
CROSSETT: . . . was getting his masters and I took Christian education of children and Christian education of adults. Just those two classes.
ERICKSEN: Who were the professors? [pauses] Do you recall?
CROSSETT: Miss Blomfield. [sp.?] [pauses] They were . . . she . . . I guess she was the only one I had.
ERICKSEN: How . . . how did what you were learning [pauses] make you feel about your work with women and children [unclear phrase]?
CROSSETT: Well, I thought it was a big help. I used it afterward in Honolulu and also in Taiwan. There was one thing I disagreed very strongly with her on and I told her about it, (it didn't do any good), [laughs] and that is having a worship center [pauses] for worship.
ERICKSEN: You mean . . . ?
CROSSETT: She said you should have a worship center when you had a children's church for instance, have a worship center and have candles and everything. I said, "That's heathen. I . . . we worship the Spirit, we don't worship [pauses] . . . that doesn't help out any who worship." And I disagreed with . . . it was . . . it just smacked of heathenism to me. I remember in China once, a woman came in to church . . . into the church building. It wasn't meeting time. She looked all round. She said, "Where is your God? I want to worship Him." I said, "Our God is a spirit. We don't have any idol. We worship a spirit." She couldn't understand that. [laughs] She wanted an idol to worship. But in America we don't need any worship center. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Can you think of anything that you learned in the class that you really wish you had known earlier, something that you had to change in the way you did things?
CROSSETT: [pauses] Well, I thought it was good to know the characteristics of the various age groups, and how they reacted, which I had to learn by myself. But it was good to . . . to know . . . learn those things and how to . . . how to treat the various age groups.
ERICKSEN: Did you find that the same [pauses] phases, the Chinese children have the same [phases] phases as found in [pauses] . . .
CROSSETT: Much the same.
ERICKSEN: . . . your children and other children in this country?
CROSSETT: Well, psychologically much the same. Of course, educationally very different. [pauses] because Chinese children mostly didn't go to school.
ERICKSEN: We talked about changes that you saw at the College. What kind of changes did you see in American life in general?
CROSSETT: [pauses] Oh, I don't know. [laughs, pauses, laughs]
ERICKSEN: You can pass.
CROSSETT: I pass on that. I don't know.
ERICKSEN: What about in the American churches? Had you noticed . . . ?
CROSSETT: Yes. The first thing I noticed, one of our prayer partners met us in Los Angeles. And I looked at her. I had gotten acquainted with her through correspondence, and I looked at her and said to Vincent, "Is she a Christian?" She was all cosmetics. And in China anybody who used cosmetics like that was a prostitute. And [pauses] then I saw everybody in the choir had [laughs] . . . was all painted up and I just couldn't get over that. I just thought, "Oh boy, American Christians have gone down the hill. They're all turned prostitutes." [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Can you think of any other changes that you saw?
CROSSETT: [pauses] I don't know. If we met an out and out Christian we felt we'd had . . . met a treasure. [laughs] There weren't too many that were really dedicated. It's the same today. [clears throat, pauses] They don't seem to understand what it means to really follow Christ.
ERICKSEN: [pauses] What about among your supporters? Were there any attitudes you saw in them that caused you concern?
CROSSETT: I don't know. Our prayer supporters were . . . were very earnest. And they . . . they were good prayer supporters. [laughs] I didn't find anything there that caused concern.
ERICKSEN: How . . . how did you go about retiring from China Inland Mission?
CROSSETT: When? [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Well, maybe I should ask when that happened. When did you retire, finally retire from the mission?
CROSSETT: Finally retire. Well, [rustling noise] we . . . in 1973.
ERICKSEN: No, I'm sorry. I guess I'm thinking more of your resignation when you . . . .
CROSSETT: Oh, when we . . . we resigned from the mission. Well, it was in forty-s . . . '48 when [pauses] we realized that we had no place for our children. Because of the upset conditions there was no school to send them to in our mission anymore. There was . . . we would have to go back under Communism. We could not take our children back under Communism. They'd only known war all their lives and we couldn't leave them. And we had no one to leave them with and we didn't feel it was right to leave them with anybody [rustling noise] anyway bcause of their upset condition. So we very regretfully resigned from the mission. The mission did their best to keep us from leaving. They sent two different couples from Philadelphia to visit us here in Wheaton to urge us to say under the mission. And we just said, "We couldn't do it because of our children." And so we resigned. We didn't know what we were going to do. And then this call [rustling noise] came from the church in Honolulu.
ERICKSEN: What sort of arguments did they use to [pauses] persuade you to stay in the mission?
CROSSETT: Well, they tried to get us to find somebody to take care of our children and . . .
ERICKSEN: Oh, I see.
CROSSETT: . . . or else take our children back into China.
ERICKSEN: Were there families that were taking their children in?
CROSSETT: Yes.
ERICKSEN: And what were they doing with them?
CROSSETT: I don't know. I never investigated. [laughs] I know that in Taiwan one . . . one of them who did that, who . . . she le. . . they left their children at home, and he just had tears streaming down his face and he said, "You did right. We wished we'd done it." [pauses, clears throat]
ERICKSEN: Can you tell me just a little bit about that first church that Mis . . . Rev. Crossett was pastor of in Hawaii?
CROSSETT: Well, it was . . . it was a church of different . . . it had Chinese, Japanese, Hawaiians, whites. It was a mixture of people and it had one dictator. He was a white man married to a Japanese lady and he was very much of a dictator. And he just took all the offices in the church. He was head of the deacons, he was head of Sunday school, he was head of everything. And Vincent said, "Well, we'll have to change that and get other people involved." And that made him our enemy. And he . . . from that time on he worked to get rid of us. And the people didn't know any better and he said, "We have . . . we . . . we like our pastor don't we . . . we want a vote of confidence." And they didn't know what a vote of confidence was, so they all signed up for it. And he never would show Vincent that . . . that paper. But then he came and he said, "The people don't want you. They have a vote of confidence against you." And [pauses] [laughs] the people didn't know that at all. And then they [pauses] . . . he . . . he had a meeting of certain leaders in the middle of night at the church. Vincent was working late that night and they were having this meeting and he went in and he said, "I'm pastor. I can take the chairman of this meeting." They were furious. They tried to get him out. But then they had another . . . I don't know if it was another meeting another night in the middle of the night. And they voted and then they came to us and got us out of bed and said, "You're out." [laughs] Vincent said, "Well, I'm not out until you pay me." They hadn't paid us for two months. They said . . . he said, "If we don't pay him then he'll know where his income comes from." But as a matter of fact the people heard that we weren't being paid and they gave us more money than he would have gotten if he'd gotten his salary. But they [pauses] . . . Vincent said, "Well, unless you pay me I'm still pastor." So then they hurried and they gave him a check for money beyond what they felt they owed him. Actually they . . . they . . . the constitution said they should pay him for three months afterwards, I think it was, and they paid for o. . . one month. But, then [pauses] people were crying and saying, "We don't want you out," and everything but [pauses] we left. [laughs] It was too uncomfortable. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Was that a difficult time for you?
CROSSETT: Oh, yes, naturally. We didn't know what we were going to do. And then half the people left and before that the church had split before, a couple of times. And they were all meeting together in another place and they asked Vincent to take leadership. And so that was the start of a new church.
ERICKSEN: And so was that the . . . where he would pastor for the reminder of your time in Hawaii?
CROSSETT: Well, yeah, we . . . we [pauses] got a place in another area. And the church developed from that. Most of those first ones left though and went to other churches. But by that time new ones had come in and the church grew from there on.
ERICKSEN: What became of the first church?
CROSSETT: It's still going on. That other . . . that dictator took over and got himself ordained. He got a man who had ordained himself to ordain him. [laughs] And he was . . . he kept on and the church is still going. He died some years ago.
ERICKSEN: How would compare being a missionary out on the field with being a pastors wife?
CROSSETT: I'd rather be a missionary on the field any day. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Why is that?
CROSSETT: Well, a pastor's wife gets all the criticism. And whatever she does she's criticized. I know if I spoke to people I was a gossip. So I decided that I would just say hello and then I was high-hatting them. And [pauses] I just felt I was criticized for anything I did or didn't do.
ERICKSEN: What were . . . what . . . what were they expecting you to be?
CROSSETT: I don't know. [laughs] I tried to measure up but I didn't know what they wanted of me. I taught Bible classes and I . . . I taught Pioneer Girls and Sunday school. I took almost every position in the Sunday school at different times when there was a need. And I did everything I could to build up the church. I did lots of calling [pauses] and I know other people loved me and in many ways, but I just felt I . . . I didn't know what to do. I was being criticized so much.
ERICKSEN: How did you respond to that?
CROSSETT: Well, usually I didn't say anything. Once in a . . . in a meeting, a business meeting, somebody accused me of taking on all the women's work, all the children's work, and I was doing everything. And I just said, "Well, the women's Bible classes. . . ." I had two Bible classes at the time and I had offered them to another worker. I said, "If you want these classes take them." But she wouldn't take them. So I kept on and the women knew that. But she got up in the meeting and said that I was hogging all the women's meetings. [laughs] And I said, "Take them." So she took them then. But [laughs] just [pauses] . . . it was just difficult to know what . . . what to do and what not to do. But on the field I had freedom. I had no difficulties at all on that regard.
ERICKSEN: [pauses] Did circumstances in Hawaii, all out you being together, provide the stability that you felt the girls needed?
CROSSETT: Yes. They became very calm and all their memories of the war seem to have faded.
ERICKSEN: How long did that process take for them?
CROSSETT: Maybe two or three years.
ERICKSEN: Do you remember when you started thinking about going back to Taiwan? Not going back to Taiwan. You'd never been there. But when did you start thinking about going to the . . . back to the mission field?
CROSSETT: Well, Vincent, without talking to me, he just suddenly resigned from the church. He just felt . . . the girls had finished college and it was time. We hadn't talked it over but he . . . he offered his resignation. And . . . and then we said, "Well, what should we do?" and then we prayed about it and felt that we should reapply to the mission. So we did and were accepted.
ERICKSEN: Now you say you didn't talk about it ahead of time. How did you feel when you found that out?
CROSSETT: I was glad. [laughs] Yeah, I really felt a relief. [?][pauses] But the people of the church weren't happy. They wanted to keep him.
ERICKSEN: Did you have any [pauses] desires as to where you wanted to work?
CROSSETT: No, we did . . . we just wanted to go wherever the mission sent us.
ERICKSEN: And so you had no preference at all?
CROSSETT: No.
ERICKSEN: How was it decided that you went . . . go to Taiwan?
CROSSETT: Well, the mission suggested that we go there and . . . and we said, "Sure we'd be glad to go anywhere we fill the bill."
ERICKSEN: Can you describe the process you went through of [pauses] joining the mission again?
CROSSETT: I was almost like applying for the first time. We had to fill out all the statement of faith and all the different things and give references. And it took about six months to process. [laughs] The first time it took about a year. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Now was . . . had the process changed any [pauses] since you had done it the first time?
CROSSETT: Well, it was a bit shorter, [laughs] shortened otherwise. No, it was very similar.
ERICKSEN: [pauses] How . . . sort of in general, how would compare your work with the . . . in Taiwan with what you were doing in China?
CROSSETT: It was very different. We were doing forward movement work, pioneer work in China. And in Taiwan, when we first went there Vincent was the general secretary, that is he was . . . he kept all the accounts, and . . . of all the different missionaries on the field in Taiwan.
ERICKSEN: For the whole country?
CROSSETT: Yeah. And [pauses] I was keeping the house . . . the home . . . the mission home for any guests that came through, and . . . and just general hostess there in the mission home.
ERICKSEN: And where was that?
CROSSETT: That was in Tainan in Taiwan. And then [pauses] after about two-and-a-half years [pauses], there was a funny mix up. Then they . . . the superintendent came to us suddenly and said, "Did you know that the mission is sending out somebody to take your place here?" He was terribly upset. We said, "No, we didn't know anything about it." We thought maybe we weren't doing things properly or something you know. And the Carlbergs came out to take our place and . . . and we were left in the lurch. And then we got a letter from the headquarters in Singapore and they said, "Oh, we're apologizing." [laughs] And then we didn't know what we were to do and we prayed about it. And then [pauses] one of the heads of the Yu Shan Theological Institute came over and said, "We hear you are available for teaching. Would you come and teach in our tribal school?" So we were glad and we . . . we said, "Yes, we'd be glad to." So we went over there to teach.
ERICKSEN: Why . . . what happened . . . I mean, how was it that you never heard that the switch was being made?
CROSSETT: I don't know. It was a mix up in Singapore. I don't know why they just forgot to notify us and they forgot to notify our superintendent. And he was so upset.
ERICKSEN: And was he the one that made assignments as to where you were to work?
CROSSETT: Yes.
ERICKSEN: So he was sort of left in the dark too.
CROSSETT: Yeah, yeah. [laughs, pauses] That was a mistake. The mission doesn't usually do that. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Now were the Taiwanese that you would have been with those first two and half years, were those Chinese or where they people native to the island?
CROSSETT: Chinese.
ERICKSEN: Who had immigrated?
CROSSETT: Well, they'd been there for several hundred years. [laughs] All the Taiwanese are Tai . . . are Chinese except the tribes.
ERICKSEN: Is there any difference between the Chinese in Taiwan and the Chinese in China?
CROSSETT: Well, the language . . . I mean the . . . the Taiwanese have their own language. The Taiwanese language which is from the Fujian Province. It's the same as the Fujian language of China. But it is not Mandarin, but they learned Mandarin in . . . in the schools in Taiwan, after the . . . after Chiang Kai-shek came over he changed all the schools into Mandarin. And when we first went there that . . . that process was just going on, just beginning. And . . . and they spoke such funny Mandarin. We [laughs] . . . we just laughed it was so stilted. But then as they got familiar and now it's no different.
ERICKSEN: What [pauses] . . . what were the tribal people like?
CROSSETT: Well, there were ten different tribes. There were ten different languages, ten different cultures. And [pauses] most of . . . when we first went over there they were . . . most of the tribes were just getting over headhunting. They had become Christians so they'd stopped headhunting. But as long as the Japanese were there they were headhunters except for one or two tribes. And [pauses] . . . and they were very friendly, good natured, lovable people, but very gullible. The Chinese could . . . could trick them all the time and were always doing it. They trick them out of anything they had, because they . . . they didn't have money in the mountains. They didn't use money, they had barter. And they'd come down to the coast to try to get something and they'd have to have money. And the Chinese would rip them off all the time and cheat them out of things they wanted to sell. And they had a terrible time. Cheat them out of their land and [pauses] they're still doing it as far as I know. The government tried to save them from that. They . . . then they gave them liquor. [pauses] The Chin . . . it's just . . . they're just like American Indians if they get into liquor. They just forget everything and lose everything. And that's . . . the Chinese knew that and they would . . . they would give them liquor and then they'd take . . . take away their homes and their lands and everything that they owned. But [pauses] the school tried to teach them economics and how to . . . how to handle money and . . . so they were learning. [pauses] But most difficult for them. They're such a . . . a lovable people and very affectionate and very willing to listen. It was a joy to work with them.
ERICKSEN: What [pauses] . . . what was their racial heritage?
CROSSETT: They were mostly [pauses] Malaysian. I know that one tribe, the Paiwan tribe is very much like the . . . the people of the Philippines. They're small, dark. The tribe we worked in mostly was not a bit like that. They were a bit taller. They weren't very tall either, [laughs] but they were paler and [pauses] the customs were different, the language, of course, different. But we worked with all of them, all the tribes. But the ones we choose . . . the one we choose was a small tribe high in the mountains. And we'd go up there in vacation time and hold meetings and hold vacation Bible school. They were beautiful singers. That tribe particularly but all of the tribal people are singers . . .
ERICKSEN: Now what was the name of that tribe?
CROSSETT: . . . very musical. Tsou. The Tsou tribe.
ERICKSEN: How do you spell that?
CROSSETT: T-S-O-U. But it's pronounced Tsoul. But it was a small . . . one of the smaller tribes. And we loved to go up in their villages, but the mountains were so steep. It was so difficult to climb up there. But when we got up there it was so much fun. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: What [pauses] . . . what was the . . . what were the pre-Christian practices of the tribe?
CROSSETT: They were spirit worshipers. They worshiped their ancestors, they worshiped trees, and they were animists. They worshiped rocks and [pauses] then they worshiped the heads they took.
ERICKSEN: So, headhunting has a . . . a religious aspect to it?
CROSSETT: Yeah. They worshiped the heads they took. But they'd have big festivals and danced around the pole with the head on it.
ERICKSEN: Now what . . . who did they think inhabited the heads?
CROSSETT: It was one of their enemies. [laughs] But they thought they'd get the strength of their enemies through that. But [pauses] the Tsou tribe stopped headhunting several hundred years ago. The others just about thirty years before we got there they'd stopped.
ERICKSEN: Now the Tsou tribe did they continue their other heathen practices?
CROSSETT: They still worshiped their ancestors but . . . but a very crude. They'd . . . they had old baskets. You know, they all carried things on their backs in these baskets. And they'd take the baskets of their ancestors and put them in . . . on a shelf in their home. And they felt the spirit of their ancestors were in the baskets.
ERICKSEN: Just the empty basket?
CROSSETT: Uh-huh. And when they turned to be Christian they'd take out those baskets and their . . . the . . . the poles that they use to pound the rice. Those things they had worshiped and they would burned them. [pauses] They have a lot of superstitions, too, about . . . if they're going out on a trip, if a certain kind of a bird flew across the path they'd go home. You wouldn't cross that.
ERICKSEN: Why?
CROSSETT: It was superstition. It would bring bad luck. And then if a person sneezed before they started out they wouldn't go. [laughs] And they had all kinds of superstitions like that. I have an article on that that one of the professors at Yu Shan wrote his thesis. And it's very interesting all the superstitions that they have.
ERICKSEN: What happens to those superstitions when [pauses] . . . when people become Christians?
CROSSETT: It's very difficult for them to give them up. I know in the school, here they were suppose to be all Christians in the school, and they still believed in those things. And we could . . . we used to have sessions, student sessions, where we'd bring those up. And they'd argue for them, and they'd say that, "It's true! If you did . . . if you went across the path a bird flew across. It's true that if you sneezed [laughs] started out on a trip it would be bad luck." And they . . . it was hard to convince them that they weren't true. But . . . .
ERICKSEN: Was they any particular argument that seemed to persuade them?
CROSSETT: I don't know. [pauses] We just . . . we'd just discussed it and leave it.
ERICKSEN: [pauses] Now did you need to learn a new [pauses] language to teach at the school?
CROSSETT: No, we used Mandarin. All of . . . all the students had to learn Mandarin . . .
ERICKSEN: Oh, I see.
CROSSETT: . . . to come to school.
ERICKSEN: Did they need to know Mandarin before they got there?
CROSSETT: Yes. They . . . they went to the public schools [pauses] before they got there.
ERICKSEN: What did you do at the school?
CROSSETT: I taught Christian Ed. and Bible and some English.
ERICKSEN: Were you doing any church work at the same time?
CROSSETT: In vacation times we went into the mountains, helped the tribal churches.
ERICKSEN: Now, tell me how did you decide to use your vacation time [pauses] to do more work?
CROSSETT: [laughs]
ERICKSEN: It sounds . . . sounds like you weren't getting much rest.
CROSSETT: Well, we didn't take much rest. The mission wanted us to take a month off every year. We hardly ever did it. We . . . we didn't care about taking time off. We just enjoyed going up in the mountains and teaching the people. I know [pauses] they had a missionary conference of all the missions in the island every summer. And the mission wanted us to go to that. We went once and we said, "Augh. We're not going to that anymore." [laughs]
ERICKSEN: Why was that?
CROSSETT: Well, [pauses] it was interesting. They would have a speaker come out from the States and give us Bible lessons and everything and it was really interesting and nice and nice to be with the other missionaries. But, if you got involved they'd elect you to an office and [laughs] we didn't want that. So . . . so we just didn't go any more. [laughs]
ERICKSEN: [pauses] What . . . when was the school started?
CROSSETT: The school [pauses] was started under the Japanese, when the Japanese were there. It was before the takeover in '49. It wasn't very old when we went there, but I don't know how old it was. I just . . . [interrupted by Ericksen]
ERICKSEN: I'm sorry.
CROSSETT: I know that friends of ours [pauses], they were with OPC [Orthodox Presbyterian Church], they had been . . . they were working there in Taiwan under the Japanese and they helped start the school. They're retired now in Florida. What's their name? [pauses] If I said [rustling sound] their name you would know probably. [laughs] But [pauses] when the Japanese were driven out they went to Japan and worked. And . . . but the school kept on. It started very very small in Hua-lien there. You know Dr. Rie. . . doctor [pauses] . . . Sister . . . Sister Cooney, she's a dentist of German sisters, she was working with them in the school and she . . . she was telling us how she taught some of these tribal fellows to do dentistry. And she said she didn't have any classroom except a great big bath tub [laughs] and that was her classroom. [laughs] She taught these fellows to do dentistry and they went all over the mountains doing dentistry for the tribes. But [pauses] that was part of the beginning of the school.
END OF TAPE