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This is a complete and accurate transcript of the tape of the oral history interview
of Vernon William Patterson (Collection 5, T3) in the Archives
of the Billy Graham Center. No spoken words which were recorded were omitted.
In a very few cases, the transcribers could not understand what was said, in
which case "[unclear]' was inserted. Also, grunts and verbal hesitations such
as "ah" or "um" were usually omitted. Readers of this transcript should remember
that this is a transcript of spoken English, which follows a different rhythm
and even rule than written English. Vida Patterson, wife of Vernon Patterson,
sat in on the interview and contributed her comments, most not easily heard
as she wasn't intended to be part of the interview.
. . . Three dots indicate an interruption or break in the train of thought within the sentence of the speaker.
. . . . Four dots indicate what the transcriber believes to be the end of an incomplete sentence.
( ) Word in parentheses are asides made by the speaker.
[ ] Words in brackets are comments made by the transcriber.
This transcript was completed by Wayne D. Weber in July 2000.
Collection 5, T3. Interview of Vernon William Patterson by Paul Ericksen, March 4, 1985.
PATTERSON: ...[Vir]ginia Asher Club...Bible class. They'd meet every week. There was....
VIDA PATTERSON: Miss Graham said she'd learned more at that evangelistic thing you got and then she said unclear]....
PATTERSON: But then we got this doctrinal statement out and we put that on a card and...and got people the...we passed them out among the audience and we got I must thing about twenty-five hundred signatures on that.
VIDA PATTERSON: But you had about ten Bible teachers...
PATTERSON: Yeah.
VIDA PATTERSON: ...to come and teach.
PATTERSON: Yeah, yeah. Vida, go on and tell him what you said. They had about ten Bible teachers to come.
VIDA PATTERSON: [speaks in the background but is unclear]...club. You had Bible teachers.
PATTERSON: Oh, yeah we brought in a number of teachers there.
VIDA PATTERSON: Dr. Woodbridge [unclear].
PATTERSON: ...Bible teachers. We had...we brought them...
VIDA PATTERSON: Buswell.
PATTERSON: Who was the ladies Bible teacher that was so good?
VIDA PATTERSON: Miss Withington. [?]
PATTERSON: No, not...I mean...we didn't bring her in. She was here.
VIDA PATTERSON: Well, I'm not bothered by that. I'm bothered by those teachers.
PATTERSON: She was a very fine Bible teacher. We had her and we had A.C. Gaebelein [Arno C.]. We had Buswell [James Oliver Jr.?]. We had...
VIDA PATTERSON: Woodridge.
PATTERSON: ...Woodridge.
VIDA PATTERSON: We had Gae...oh, I don't know how many.
PATTERSON: And we...I don't know how many others. We had...several of the Bob Jones boys...
VIDA PATTERSON: [speaks in the background but is unclear]
PATTERSON: ...would come. And we...we just had a...we did everything we could to...to [pauses] win souls to Christ and build them up in the faith. And we carried that on across to...to Raleigh. There we left the...we sold the tabernacle over there to the...the church.
VIDA PATTERSON: Did you...[?]
PATTERSON: And then after that...then after that....
VIDA PATTERSON: Did you tell him about King's Mountain?
PATTERSON: Yes, I'll...I'll tell about that.
ERICKSEN: That's...that's another story.
PATTERSON: But over at Raleigh the YMCA had a camp ground over there that they didn't...didn't...didn't make a success of, so they gave us that. And we...we put on that with the Children's Bible League or...or that. And they have camps and still hold it at that...
ERICKSEN: For children?
PATTERSON: ...same place now. They still have that camp going out there. And then in connection with our state wide program with Jimmie leading it, Jimmie Johnson, this was in '36 [actually 1931], I believe, the state decided to make the battle ground of King's Mountain [Blacksburg, South Carolina] a national park. And they built excellent facilities down there for the use of the people. They had a big...big center built room that had a large dining room and kitchen and all and then they had cottages for the...the ones who came and camped there. Well, the first year they put it on, I wrote down to the...the one in charge...the officer down in charge in South Caroline and rented it. The first year it came in we rent the...we rented that every summer for five years or so. And then but we had a...a camp there...
VIDA PATTERSON: [speaks in the background but is unclear]
PATTERSON: ...that reached thousand of people. The young people and all would come down there, Billy [Graham], and Grady [Wilson], and T.W. [Wilson], and...and Merv Rosell and...and I don't know. We had...we had Jimmie Johnson. That was part of our state wide program down there at that camp in the summer.
ERICKSEN: When did you begin to be involved in the Christian Business Men's Committee?
PATTERSON: Soon as I came to Charlotte. I...I....
VIDA PATTERSON: Oh, no.
ERICKSEN: Not...not the Evangelistic Men's....
VIDA PATTERSON: ...Committee.
PATTERSON: You mean the Business...now what was the....
ERICKSEN: CBMC.
PATTERSON: Hmm?
ERICKSEN: The CBMC.
VIDA PATTERSON: When they called you to Washington.
PATTERSON: Well, I didn't...the CBMC was right here in Charlotte...
ERICKSEN: Uh-huh.
PATTERSON: ...but the...the movement had started in about 1917. That started...Billy Sunday really was...
VIDA PATTERSON: Pat, he wanted to know about the Christian Business Men's Committee when [Robert G.] Letourneau called you to Washington.
PATTERSON: Well, that's another...
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
PATTERSON: ...that's another organization. I'll...I'll get to that.
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
PATTERSON: All right I'll get to that. But you asked me another question. He....
ERICKSEN: No, I...I...I asked when you got involved in the Christian Business Men's Committee.
PATTERSON: Well, when I was traveling for Moody Bible Institute I ran across it first down in Columbus, Georgia, or Atlanta I believe. They had started down there in 1917.
VIDA PATTERSON: Pat, he's talking about the Christian Business Men's Committee.
PATTERSON: That's exactly what I'm talking about, exactly. That's the so called Billy Sunday group.
ERICKSEN: No, my understanding....
VIDA PATTERSON: Letourneau's work. When you joined....
PATTERSON: Well, you're talking about the international. All right, well.
VIDA PATTERSON: He's talking about...
PATTERSON: All right...all right...all right
VIDA PATTERSON: ...the committee.
PATTERSON: ...all right I see. Well, I went on up [pauses]...I just...group that was...came out of Billy Sunday's work. It grew and grew and grew until our president in...in '39 went out. (He was quite a good s...song...speaker.) He went out and...to the [pauses]...to the World's Fair in...in Calif...outside of San Francisco, Treasure Island [1939-40 San Francisco, Golden Gate International Exposition]. They had the World's Fair out there. And he went out there to speak. And in his speech out there he mentioned that our organization was...had grown so large. (Boyd Hargraves was his name. He was president.) Vida I'm...
VIDA PATTERSON: He wants to talk about the Christian Business Men's Committee after [?] Letourneau called you to Washington.
PATTERSON: Vida, I'm ge...getting to that right now and I'm...you.... Well, anyway he...Boyd Hargraves, our president, went out to speak at that World's Fair at Treasure Island outside of San Francisco. And he told the growth of our group and that we were..we'd out...outgrown Blue Ridge and we'd gone to [pauses]...to Ben Lippin and we were looking...and we still didn't have enough room for our meeting. Well, after the close of the meeting a man came up to Boyd Hargraves, our president, and said, "I was very much interested in what you said about [pauses]...about that...your organization had...had...had outgrown quarters, couldn't find...it was looking for a place to stay." And he said, "I'm building a fact...a factory down at Taccoa, Georgia, and I'd...I'd like to build you a place." So he made an appointment with us and we met him that fall. This was the fall of...of 19 [pauses]...1939 I believe.
ERICKSEN: Who was the gentleman that...?
PATTERSON: R. G. Letourneau.
ERICKSEN: Okay. And did he...he...and he built the facility?
PATTERSON: So we met...he asked us to come down and meet him at...at his factory. He was building a factory there. And I'll tell you the that story lies back of that factory.
ERICKSEN: Well, that...we already have that.
VIDA PATTERSON: I know.
PATTERSON: That's why...you...about his son.
VIDA PATTERSON: They've got that, Dad.
ERICKSEN: About...about building the...the da...damming up the lake and....
PATTERSON: Yes. But that isn't the story I'm talking about. The way...how did [?] Letourneau come to build a factory down there. Well, Letourneau.... Vida, you're shaking you head and you don't know what you're talking about. Well, Letourneau's oldest son had been thrown out of two colleges or...and he was...he was very much troubled about it. Well, Dr. Forest of the Toccoa Falls Bible Institute decided to go over and visit the...the far eastern Bible...mission fields. So on his way over there Dr. Forest spoke in Seattle, I believe, or one of those cities. I believe that was it. And a man came up to him at the close of the meeting and asked him [pauses] about his work. He gave him a check for a thousand dollars. He didn't know who it was. It was Letourneau. And he asked him if...about his school and R.G's son had been thrown out about two high schools. He was...he was just gone wild for...there for a while. So R.G. asked him about his so...about his school and he asked him to take his boy in the school down there and told him the situation. And so he sent his oldest son down there and.... Dr. Forest when he came back led him to Christ. So R.G. was very grateful...very grateful his oldest son. And...
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
PATTERSON: ...so he decided to move his plant...plant down there and he asked Dr. Forest to buy four thousand acres of land or something for him. So he....
VIDA PATTERSON: Pat, Dr....Mr. Letourneau telephoned you from Washington and told you to meet him at...
PATTERSON: Vida, that's entir....
VIDA PATTERSON: That's what he wants.
PATTERSON: Vida.... All right, you want to know about how I got in the...in the Christian Business Men's International.
VIDA PATTERSON: Yes.
PATTERSON: Well, R.G. built that lake down there for us, for our group, Southern group. And I was president, I was president. Well, the...the Northern group was Christian Business Men's Committee International. I had attended several of their meetings but it w...but it was a separate organization. And Strathern, Dr. Harold Strathern was in charge of the...of R.G.'s foundation. And so Harold Strathern...after we had met with R.G. and he had decided to build us the lake, Strathern had phoned me to come up to Washington. They were...the...the Northern group, the Christian Business Men's Committee International was having it's convention in...in...at the Sheridan...at the Mayflower...flower Hotel in Washington. And Strathern phoned me to come up there. He was...he was the head of the foundation of Letourneau's.
ERICKSEN: Why did he want you to come to the meeting?
PATTERSON: Well, I'll...I'll tell you. He wanted me to come. I was the president of the...the...had been president of the Southern group.
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
PATTERSON: He phoned me Friday night and I told him I couldn't come then, that I had a meeting up in...up in Hendersonville. Well, he said, "Come on up tomorrow morn...morning. Fly up." So I flew up there and I got to the Mayflower Hotel at noon and as I walked up to the door of the...of the Mayflower Hotel one of the leaders of the Christian Business Men's Committee International, that was the Northern group, he came out to...met me at the door and said, "Well, Pat, they've just elected you director."
ERICKSEN: Of CBMI?
PATTERSON: Of the CBMCI.
ERICKSEN: CBMCI.
PATTERSON: "I've just elected you...they've just elected you."
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
ERICKSEN: That's why you...they wanted you to come.
PATTERSON: Yeah, Strathern got me up there. [laughs]
VIDA PATTERSON: Letourneau did.
PATTERSON: Letourneau.
ERICKSEN: Now, why w...was it intentional that CBMC International was in the North and....
PATTERSON: No...no. There was no...that wasn't it. It was just growth. And there was no...there was no separation of them.
ERICKSEN: You just mentioned the one was in the North and the other in the South.
PATTERSON: One developed in the South and one in the North. One was developed by Billy Sunday and those up in the North grew up among the laymen.
VIDA PATTERSON: But what impact [?].
PATTERSON: Over...and they grew up about simultaneously about 1930.
ERICKSEN: Doctrinally compatible?
PATTERSON: There were two [pauses]...Ron Grunrgen was out in Penn...San Francisco. G-R-U-N-R-G-E-N. He was a great leader among the laymen out there. And they...they formed a...a layman's group out in...out there in Sacra...the San Francisco area. And almost simultaneously the group...the group sprung up in New...New York with...with the Bob...Swan...Swanson and Grinnells and several of them over there. They organized. And about the same time the...the...a group was formed in Chicago. And then they all, the leaders of them...and another one...another one was shortly after that formed up in Toronto. Well, shortly after that the leaders, about five of them including Letourneau and...and Barlow Yeager of Toledo and Hedstrom of Chicago and Fisher of Chicago and, let's see, there was another one up there, about five of them met at the Edgewater Beach Hotel and formed the Christian Businessmen's Committee, International. The International came in...in the Toronto and then that grew and enlarged until we had committees around the world.
ERICKSEN: So then they elected you as their director and....
PATTERSON: I was director three ti...on two different terms. You couldn't...they...you were elected...well, the telegram when I got there that Strathern asked me to come up. They...he told me they...he want...called me Friday and I had this engagement in...in Hendersonville. So...
VIDA PATTERSON: [unclear]
PATTERSON: ...I...so I couldn't come till Saturday and when I got there Saturday morning and got to the Mayfair Hotel they'd already elected me director.
ERICKSEN: Now, how...did that put you in kind of a funny position of being director of the CBMC International and you were president of the....
PATTERSON: Well, there...there wasn't...they...I probably had given up the presidency...
ERICKSEN: Oh, I see.
PATTERSON: ...down here at that time.
VIDA PATTERSON: Pat, you ought tell him they changed to CBMC after you arrived [?].
PATTERSON: Well, years went by. We worked together. We worked together and there was no conflict. We were doing it in the North and they were doing it in the South.
ERICKSEN: Doctrinally everything...
PATTERSON: Finally they....
ERICKSEN: ...was compatible?
PATTERSON: Well, after b...after R.G. built that...that Lake Louise conference grounds, then Hedstrum and the...and Fisher and others from Chicago and Grenells and all, they'd...they would come down with us, and they finally merged...merged the two. We worked right together and then, why, we...I'd go up there to their meetings. And I remember...I remember one funny thing when the...this CBMC in the North took place. They started out and had a field secretary. And I...I had been going to their meetings even before I...even while I was an officer down here. I'd go to their meetings too. And I...right when they were getting started they had a meeting up in the Pennsylvania Hotel shortly after it was built. They didn't have any auditorium but they had a ballroom on the top floor. So they...they built some boxes in a sort of a semicircle and fitted them together and put a...a greenery on back of it to give you it background. And this...this straight platform...the front of the platform was straight and then it round...it was round and rounded at the back and they put tall evergreens right back of it. Well, at that time this...the northern group, the CBMCI, had employed a field secretary and he was sort of a short roly-poly fellow, laughing oft...al...a lot. Well, they...they just had this...this sort of a half circle for their platform, and they put chairs around the back of it and had lar...tall evergreens back of that. Well, this old...this...I've forgotten his name now but he was a sort of a fat roly-poly fellow. He was the one started out employed with them...employed field secretary. I was up at that meeting at the Pennsylvania Hotel. And this...this fellow...they...they...all the directors sat up on the platform. And one of them was up speaking and all of a sudden he said something funny...some humorous remark and this [pauses] secretary, this fat one, (I can't think of his name right now) he leaned back to laugh and slipped the back [laughs]...the back rungs of his chair over the back and he went...he disappeared in the...in the...in...in the greenery [laughs].
ERICKSEN: We are...we're at the end of our tape so we're going need to stop for now.
PATTERSON: All right.
ERICKSEN: Thank you.
PATTERSON: Well.
VIDA PATTERSON: I think....